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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 10, 2023 18:27:35 GMT
Now open The Dark Tower I: The Gunslinger, part 1 The Gunslinger. I'll start I guess with this... This book started in King's mind when he was in college years before he hit it big with Carrie. He had other books swirling around in his brain since High School. Some of Rage was actually written in High School. He knew The Gunslinger (and the longer story) was different. He knew that at that age when the story idea started to coalesce he would basically be rewriting The Lord of the Rings. So he waited. He grew and then went back. This story was sold to The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction in late 70's. It was split into 5 stories. The same stories sectioned off we are reading. I just merged the last 2. Ok lets talk about a few Elephants in the room. The Story Format. This Format might be the most unique for King? Not in the voice, like in Black House where the Omniscient Narrator talks directly to the audience. Or in style like Carrie where the plot is supported by Newspaper articles, scientific journal entries, government proceeding logs etc. (Sorta like Bram Stoker's Dracula). Or Delores Claiborne with is a 1st Person's Log telling her back story to a Court/Cop/DA. This is more like Gerald's Game which the present's plot is strongly pushed by flash backs. You start in the Present with Roland in Mohaine Desert. He falls asleep. His dream forces us into the first Flashback to Farmer Brown. His dinner with Brown takes us into the 1st Flashback inside the Flashback (ie 2nd flashback) into Tull. Inside the flashback inside the flashback we have a 3rd flashback. Allie telling the story of the Man in Black resurrecting Nort. After the end of Battle of Tull we come out of all the flash back nesting back to Roland Sleeping. I hope this nesting didn't fuck people up to much. Trust me before he revised the book, to me that nesting was handled a lot more clunkily. Second Elephant in the room The Man in Black's resurrecting of Nort. The way he did it was retarded, lol. I think the spitting was a nod to the Evil Eye Spitting. The Jumping/Flips/Jack Knifes to me is supposed to show the Man in Black's Jester/Tittering/Playful side. I'll let bartlesby lead this discussion :) Third Elephant in the room Roland might have a little bit of a chubby kink. He thought Sylivia Piston's 300lb frame was fucking hot. Forth Elephant in the room You might not know some words. Most gets defined pretty well during the story. I'll just offer up a few. Khef has multiple meanings. He mentions the different levels of it allowing him to look at his thirst detached. In the vulgate Khef means life/Life Force or just water. In the High Speech it means the "Water of Life." A more philosophical discipline. In the line where he mentions levels he is talking about the discipline. It's like Shingon Buhdists in real life that literally can starve themselves. The Manni is mentioned in this line. They are a group of people that can/do Practice this philosophy. High Speech the language of upper class of Roland's Homeland. It's formed by the Great Letters. (ie a complicated alphabet) Gunna means your shit/gear basically. Bow is Bow and Arrow. Bah is a cross bow. Bucca is buck wagon. Taheen is a specific race of humanoids that have animal heads. If there are other words/concepts you don't understand you can ask. So First impressions from newbies and from people who are reading this version for first time. Also those who have read what's it like getting back into this story? After this little bit house keeping I'll get more into discussing minutiae. The Trashcan Man bartlesby Foxy Boricanator ofunknownorigins Dracula bomtombadil tommyrockarolla TheGoodMan19 san926f 🐾 Molly 🐾 You're missing the point with Sylvia. She was alluring because she represented everything that part of the world wasn't: Gravid, lush, nourished. Her skin was described as pale and creamy in an envrionment where people toil in hot, dry dirt under the sun, and struggle to create the life of their crops. It's a world where water is a commodity and everything is dry and sun-beaten, including the people. Her 300 pound frame was a part of her allure because, like the statues of fertility goddesses, in this world it represented abundance, and health, and wealth. It's why she was a perfect vessel for Walter's demon seed. Thirst, in its many forms, is a theme that is established in the beginning of the book. We see it in it's classic definition when Roland talks several times about becoming dehydrated. And thirst as unquenchable desire is seen in the womem of Tull, with Allie, the farmer's daughter, and Sylvia herself (and not to get ahead of myself, but King uses the "thirst" in female desire as a plot device in multiple ways). I think it's a reflection of Roland's obsession with the tower. It's become a part of him, but his obsession is also his weakness. I think when he brought Nort back, he was making fun of the whole situation. Making fun of death and the town people's reaction to it. So he did a bit of showmanship/a clown act when resurrecting him. I've never thought about it that way. Her weight, skin, robustness (both physically and mentally) representing life, fertility, but also excessiveness. Your interpretation has changed the way I look at her. Damn. I always feel sorry for Allie. Not just because she dies, but in general. She is in a horrible situation. She i think owns the Bar but has to name it Shebs. She relegated to the side because she's a woman. She also rightly scared of The Change. Old age in a place like that can't be great. She's put on this hard outer shell to shield herself from everything but she still has a caring core. You can see it when Roland looks at her Scar or how she is with Nort. She doesn't have any rational reason to care for him or help him but she does. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 10, 2023 22:54:20 GMT
san926f I meant to ask you did you notices any differences? This goes for everyone who read it before 2003. If you read it before 2003 you read the original then, as the revised was published in that summer I think. If you read it after 2003 it's a crap shoot which one you read. The mistake I like that he fixed was his Mule he bought in Pricetown. It went from a mule to a donkey, back to a mule.. etc. Now it's always a mule. I am going to let bartlesby give his opinions on Norts Resurrections. I feel he will have a deep cuts and major points I can see if I agree or if I can get around. Right now I'm leaning towards it's to silly but I think I know where King wanted us to go. If this is your first time. Please share with us your thoughts. (up until The Way Station). Was it difficult to get into? Did it hold your interest? Or did kings common voice (common voice as in the writing not his actual voice) guide you through Part 1 of the Book quickly? His very slow build up of little things/tech/spirits kind of helps suspend disbelief. So does his voice and tone your make it easy read or medium tough read?. I know it's early in the book but any scenes stick Out? Feel free to discuss ask questions about anything in part 1, Part 2 The Way station will be open for discussion on Monday. Then you can discuss Part 1 or 2... Come join in my peeps: The Trashcan Man ofunknownorigins Boricanator Dracula bomtombadil tommyrockarolla TheGoodMan19 🐾 Molly 🐾
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 10, 2023 22:55:15 GMT
Does tagging people in PM actually do anything?
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 10, 2023 23:00:23 GMT
san926f I meant to ask you did you notices any differences? This goes for everyone who read it before 2003. If you read it before 2003 you read the original then, as the revised was published in that summer I think. If you read it after 2003 it's a crap shoot which one you read. The mistake I like that he fixed was his Mule he bought in Pricetown. It went from a mule to a donkey, back to a mule.. etc. Now it's always a mule. I am going to let bartlesby give his opinions on Norts Resurrections. I feel he will have a deep cuts and major points I can see if I agree or if I can get around. Right now I'm leaning towards it's to silly but I think I know where King wanted us to go. If this is your first time. Please share with us your thoughts. (up until The Way Station). Was it difficult to get into? Did it hold your interest? Or did kings common voice (common voice as in the writing not his actual voice) guide you through Part 1 of the Book quickly? His very slow build up of little things/tech/spirits kind of helps suspend disbelief. So does his voice and tone make it easy read or medium tough read?. I know it's early in the book but any scenes stick Out? Feel free to discuss ask questions about anything in part 1. Part 2 The Way station will be open for discussion on Monday. Then you can discuss Part 1 or 2... Come join in my peeps: The Trashcan Man ofunknownorigins Boricanator Dracula bomtombadil tommyrockarolla TheGoodMan19 🐾 Molly 🐾 I guess this is best way to edit a post. I fixed some things. |
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Post by tommyrockarolla on Nov 10, 2023 23:00:26 GMT
Does tagging people in PM actually do anything? It hit me! 😇 |
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Post by The Trashcan Man on Nov 10, 2023 23:19:58 GMT
I really do not remember enough about the first unedited book to see differences.
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Post by bartlesby on Nov 11, 2023 17:49:30 GMT
Vassaggo Sorry for the delay. Alright, the first chapter. The Trashcan Man commented on how it's established that this isn't a story taking place in the old West. This is done subtly at first with the reference to the "Manni", as something other than Christianity and Jesus Christ, immediately in the story. Most readers could assume that the Manni were an esoteric and ascetic culture of people, who even if fictional, could have plausibly existed in that era. The second indication that the setting is not what it seems comes with Brown's pet crow Zoltan, who repeats a refrain from "Beans, beans, the magical fruit. The more you eat, the more you toot." This comes across as a more obvious hint that the setting isn't what you think. It's bluntly hammered home that it isn't when the Gunslinger retells his story of Tull to Brown, and recalls that the townsfolk at the bar were singing along to "Hey Jude". You understand then that the setting isn't the old West at all and that something strange is going on. Is it a dystopian future where these things stood the test of time through apocalypse? That would be my initial guess. Personally, I think it's a good way to build intrigue. Things are off-kilter. Despite the story presenting itself like an old Western, it's outright telling you that it's not. What's going on here?
To address Vassago's elephants in the room: 1.) This chapter does have a flashback within a flashback but I'm not sure I'd agree it's a flashback within a flashback within a dream. After the Gunslinger leaves Brown, it's not clear if he wakes up from a dream or if he was still travelling after the man in black. He's done the same thing time and time again, and lost track of himself and reality, so it's just as possible that the closing of the first chapter takes place after he met Brown. 2.) The resurrection of Cort is easily one of the most ridiculous parts of the story in its depiction. I understand the idea that "Walter O'Dim" is essentially the Devil and his ritual is intentionally uncanny and unseemly but he's still depicted as a man. When he starts rapidly jack-knifing and jumping back and forth over a dead bum, spitting on him, you have no choice but to see it literally. It's not as if he turned into a blur or a black fog or something like that. It's just a guy bouncing around. I think it would have worked better if that's what Allie tried to describe it as because she couldn't otherwise put it into words. 3.) I'm not certain that the Gunslinger had a chubby fetish so much as he had a burning desire to get the man in black which crossed over into the sexual, or if the man in black's influence was so seductive that it even affected the Gunslinger. 4.) Not really an elephant in the room but internal slang. You can understand the meaning just fine or at least assume you'll be filled in on it later. King does a decent job of explaining what things mean down the road.
If I had to bring up any character for discussion, it would be Sylvia Pittson. What's her deal? And what's the deal with NINETEEN? It's not the first time King has played with numbers. Room 1408 comes to mind with the voice on the phone.
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 11, 2023 20:32:52 GMT
Vassaggo Sorry for the delay. Alright, the first chapter. The Trashcan Man commented on how it's established that this isn't a story taking place in the old West. This is done subtly at first with the reference to the "Manni", as something other than Christianity and Jesus Christ, immediately in the story. Most readers could assume that the Manni were an esoteric and ascetic culture of people, who even if fictional, could have plausibly existed in that era. The second indication that the setting is not what it seems comes with Brown's pet crow Zoltan, who repeats a refrain from "Beans, beans, the magical fruit. The more you eat, the more you toot." This comes across as a more obvious hint that the setting isn't what you think. It's bluntly hammered home that it isn't when the Gunslinger retells his story of Tull to Brown, and recalls that the townsfolk at the bar were singing along to "Hey Jude". You understand then that the setting isn't the old West at all and that something strange is going on. Is it a dystopian future where these things stood the test of time through apocalypse? That would be my initial guess. Personally, I think it's a good way to build intrigue. Things are off-kilter. Despite the story presenting itself like an old Western, it's outright telling you that it's not. What's going on here?
To address Vassago's elephants in the room: 1.) This chapter does have a flashback within a flashback but I'm not sure I'd agree it's a flashback within a flashback within a dream. After the Gunslinger leaves Brown, it's not clear if he wakes up from a dream or if he was still travelling after the man in black. He's done the same thing time and time again, and lost track of himself and reality, so it's just as possible that the closing of the first chapter takes place after he met Brown. 2.) The resurrection of Cort is easily one of the most ridiculous parts of the story in its depiction. I understand the idea that "Walter O'Dim" is essentially the Devil and his ritual is intentionally uncanny and unseemly but he's still depicted as a man. When he starts rapidly jack-knifing and jumping back and forth over a dead bum, spitting on him, you have no choice but to see it literally. It's not as if he turned into a blur or a black fog or something like that. It's just a guy bouncing around. I think it would have worked better if that's what Allie tried to describe it as because she couldn't otherwise put it into words. 3.) I'm not certain that the Gunslinger had a chubby fetish so much as he had a burning desire to get the man in black which crossed over into the sexual, or if the man in black's influence was so seductive that it even affected the Gunslinger. 4.) Not really an elephant in the room but internal slang. You can understand the meaning just fine or at least assume you'll be filled in on it later. King does a decent job of explaining what things mean down the road.
If I had to bring up any character for discussion, it would be Sylvia Pittson. What's her deal? And what's the deal with NINETEEN? It's not the first time King has played with numbers. Room 1408 comes to mind with the voice on the phone. It's all good. No pressure in this Circle. I knew it was going to be slow going in the first part because not a lot to talk about until the story gets going. Also I know everybody has outside lives, so never going to pressure anybody to discuss. I totally agree. There is something off kilter from the beginning. The very first time I read it the first inclining I had was Hey Jude, but I read it when I was 13 so I give myself a break. :) 1. I interpreted it always as the first subsection and last subsection are present day for Roland. He starts to sleep and dream from the devil grass. In both of these sections (first and last) there is no mention of the mule. The Mule died at Browns. The first sub section ends on him sleeping. The next subsection he has the mule. In the last subsection he wakes up and walks also with no mule. Now the mule could've been there in the beginning sub section and not mentioned until after he went to sleep, but I don't think so. So yeah in my mind its dream of brown, flash back to Tull, Flashback to Nort. 2. We've briefly discussed this before. I see your point. That it doesn't paint a very sinister antagonist. That the visuals are silly. With out spoilers, and being vague he isn't supposed to be the Devil. I mean he's on the Devil's side though, obviously :) I think the idea to bring out his Court Jester, Tittering, and Manic side here is so you can Juxtapose it to his serious side later. I will admit though the tumbling puts me off more than the spitting. 3. I was kinda joking there. I never put much thought to her as a character tbh. The only thing I ever remember about her is 300lbs and Roland's desire for her. Guess I'm being a little hard on her. 4. I know a few people who have read it and they always asked about certain words/phrases. I thought this might be a universal reaction for first time readers. So just a pigmy elephant in the room. Edit: I can't really talk about 19 for inuniverse reasons. King got a little obsessed with 19 after getting hit by the car. Every book after that he puts 19's in it. Either blatant like 19th street. Or sometimes you have to add numbers together or other obscure ways. The most obscure one? In 11/22/63 the main character goes back in time The Dat he leaves to Date he gets sent to is... 19,000 days. |
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Post by bartlesby on Nov 11, 2023 21:11:10 GMT
Vassaggo Sorry for the delay. Alright, the first chapter. The Trashcan Man commented on how it's established that this isn't a story taking place in the old West. This is done subtly at first with the reference to the "Manni", as something other than Christianity and Jesus Christ, immediately in the story. Most readers could assume that the Manni were an esoteric and ascetic culture of people, who even if fictional, could have plausibly existed in that era. The second indication that the setting is not what it seems comes with Brown's pet crow Zoltan, who repeats a refrain from "Beans, beans, the magical fruit. The more you eat, the more you toot." This comes across as a more obvious hint that the setting isn't what you think. It's bluntly hammered home that it isn't when the Gunslinger retells his story of Tull to Brown, and recalls that the townsfolk at the bar were singing along to "Hey Jude". You understand then that the setting isn't the old West at all and that something strange is going on. Is it a dystopian future where these things stood the test of time through apocalypse? That would be my initial guess. Personally, I think it's a good way to build intrigue. Things are off-kilter. Despite the story presenting itself like an old Western, it's outright telling you that it's not. What's going on here?
To address Vassago's elephants in the room: 1.) This chapter does have a flashback within a flashback but I'm not sure I'd agree it's a flashback within a flashback within a dream. After the Gunslinger leaves Brown, it's not clear if he wakes up from a dream or if he was still travelling after the man in black. He's done the same thing time and time again, and lost track of himself and reality, so it's just as possible that the closing of the first chapter takes place after he met Brown. 2.) The resurrection of Cort is easily one of the most ridiculous parts of the story in its depiction. I understand the idea that "Walter O'Dim" is essentially the Devil and his ritual is intentionally uncanny and unseemly but he's still depicted as a man. When he starts rapidly jack-knifing and jumping back and forth over a dead bum, spitting on him, you have no choice but to see it literally. It's not as if he turned into a blur or a black fog or something like that. It's just a guy bouncing around. I think it would have worked better if that's what Allie tried to describe it as because she couldn't otherwise put it into words. 3.) I'm not certain that the Gunslinger had a chubby fetish so much as he had a burning desire to get the man in black which crossed over into the sexual, or if the man in black's influence was so seductive that it even affected the Gunslinger. 4.) Not really an elephant in the room but internal slang. You can understand the meaning just fine or at least assume you'll be filled in on it later. King does a decent job of explaining what things mean down the road.
If I had to bring up any character for discussion, it would be Sylvia Pittson. What's her deal? And what's the deal with NINETEEN? It's not the first time King has played with numbers. Room 1408 comes to mind with the voice on the phone. I totally agree. There is something off kilter from the beginning. The very first time I read it the first inclining I had was Hey Jude, but I read it when I was 13 so I give myself a break. :) 1. I interpreted it always as the first subsection and last subsection are present day for Roland. He starts to sleep and dream from the devil grass. In both of these sections (first and last) there is no mention of the mule. The Mule died at Browns. The first sub section ends on him sleeping. The next subsection he has the mule. In the last subsection he wakes up and walks also with no mule. Now the mule could've been there in the beginning sub section and not mentioned until after he went to sleep in the next section, but I don't think so. So yeah in my mind its dream of brown, flash back to Tull, Flashback to Nort. 2. We've briefly discussed this before. I see your point. That it doesn't paint a very sinister antagonist. That the visuals are silly. With out spoilers, and being vague he isn't supposed to be the Devil. I mean he's on the Devil's side though, obviously :) I think the idea to bring out his Court Jester, Tittering, and Manic side here is so you can Juxtapose it to his serious side later. I will admit though the tumbling puts me off more than the spitting. 3. I was kinda joking there. I never put much thought to her as a character tbh. The only thing I ever remember about her is 300lbs and Roland's desire for her. Guess I'm being a little hard on her. 4. I know a few people who have read it and they always asked about certain words/phrases. I thought this might be a universal reaction for first time readers. So just a pigmy elephant in the room. Well, if you have a character who's a trickster, they're usually manipulating things in a more nuanced way. For instance, since you brought up a Court Jester, they would sow doubts in the crowd about the King while simultaneously entertaining both the King and the crowd. They could be an agent of chaos but ultimately they could not risk alienation; they need a crowd to appreciate their craft. But the man in black does alienate the some of the people there and some of them recoil and leave upon his ritual and ultimately it ended up with the bar cleared out-- just like what happened to the Gunslinger when he showed up, demonstrating a sort of parallel. Perhaps the man in black was just having some fun? I suppose. In the first chapter, Sylvia, not Nort or Allie or Brown or even the Gunslinger, was the most important character because that's who the man in black used to implement his plans and show his evil. She was the one who claimed she'd been with child of his and who turned the town against the Gunslinger: the Interloper. She's the preacher who seems to infect the town, poisoned by the man in black. She's the one who rallies the town against him, under the influence of the man in black. Allie never told her before then what the answer to NINETEEN meant, because that's what drove her mad, so this was something different. So you've got to ask, just reading that much, knowing that the Gunslinger was afraid of what the man in black could do to minds, what he'd done to her and whether it was planned or not. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 11, 2023 21:34:34 GMT
I totally agree. There is something off kilter from the beginning. The very first time I read it the first inclining I had was Hey Jude, but I read it when I was 13 so I give myself a break. :) 1. I interpreted it always as the first subsection and last subsection are present day for Roland. He starts to sleep and dream from the devil grass. In both of these sections (first and last) there is no mention of the mule. The Mule died at Browns. The first sub section ends on him sleeping. The next subsection he has the mule. In the last subsection he wakes up and walks also with no mule. Now the mule could've been there in the beginning sub section and not mentioned until after he went to sleep in the next section, but I don't think so. So yeah in my mind its dream of brown, flash back to Tull, Flashback to Nort. 2. We've briefly discussed this before. I see your point. That it doesn't paint a very sinister antagonist. That the visuals are silly. With out spoilers, and being vague he isn't supposed to be the Devil. I mean he's on the Devil's side though, obviously :) I think the idea to bring out his Court Jester, Tittering, and Manic side here is so you can Juxtapose it to his serious side later. I will admit though the tumbling puts me off more than the spitting. 3. I was kinda joking there. I never put much thought to her as a character tbh. The only thing I ever remember about her is 300lbs and Roland's desire for her. Guess I'm being a little hard on her. 4. I know a few people who have read it and they always asked about certain words/phrases. I thought this might be a universal reaction for first time readers. So just a pigmy elephant in the room. Well, if you have a character who's a trickster, they're usually manipulating things in a more nuanced way. For instance, since you brought up a Court Jester, they would sow doubts in the crowd about the King while simultaneously entertaining both the King and the crowd. They could be an agent of chaos but ultimately they could not risk alienation; they need a crowd to appreciate their craft. But the man in black does alienate the some of the people there and some of them recoil and leave upon his ritual and ultimately it ended up with the bar cleared out-- just like what happened to the Gunslinger when he showed up, demonstrating a sort of parallel. Perhaps the man in black was just having some fun? I suppose. In the first chapter, Sylvia, not Nort or Allie or Brown or even the Gunslinger, was the most important character because that's who the man in black used to implement his plans and show his evil. She was the one who claimed she'd been with child of his and who turned the town against the Gunslinger: the Interloper. She's the preacher who seems to infect the town, poisoned by the man in black. She's the one who rallies the town against him, under the influence of the man in black. Allie never told her before then what the answer to NINETEEN meant, because that's what drove her mad, so this was something different. So you've got to ask, just reading that much, knowing that the Gunslinger was afraid of what the man in black could do to minds, what he'd done to her and whether it was planned or not. The Man in Black uses the tittering/showmanship to mask his more sinister core, imho. I think that scene does show that, but it's clunky and silly. Good pickup on the symmetry of the 2 scenes of Roland vs Walter. I just view Sylvia as a trigger for Walter's first trap. Yeah you can't spring it without her, but the person who set the trap, the reason for the trap, and what's the outcome of the sprung trap is more important to me. I would say that it was planned Walter dichotomy is also expressed in him having lots of plans and being an agent of chaos... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2023 22:45:57 GMT
Vassaggo Sorry for the delay. Alright, the first chapter. The Trashcan Man commented on how it's established that this isn't a story taking place in the old West. This is done subtly at first with the reference to the "Manni", as something other than Christianity and Jesus Christ, immediately in the story. Most readers could assume that the Manni were an esoteric and ascetic culture of people, who even if fictional, could have plausibly existed in that era. The second indication that the setting is not what it seems comes with Brown's pet crow Zoltan, who repeats a refrain from "Beans, beans, the magical fruit. The more you eat, the more you toot." This comes across as a more obvious hint that the setting isn't what you think. It's bluntly hammered home that it isn't when the Gunslinger retells his story of Tull to Brown, and recalls that the townsfolk at the bar were singing along to "Hey Jude". You understand then that the setting isn't the old West at all and that something strange is going on. Is it a dystopian future where these things stood the test of time through apocalypse? That would be my initial guess. Personally, I think it's a good way to build intrigue. Things are off-kilter. Despite the story presenting itself like an old Western, it's outright telling you that it's not. What's going on here?
To address Vassago's elephants in the room: 1.) This chapter does have a flashback within a flashback but I'm not sure I'd agree it's a flashback within a flashback within a dream. After the Gunslinger leaves Brown, it's not clear if he wakes up from a dream or if he was still travelling after the man in black. He's done the same thing time and time again, and lost track of himself and reality, so it's just as possible that the closing of the first chapter takes place after he met Brown. 2.) The resurrection of Cort is easily one of the most ridiculous parts of the story in its depiction. I understand the idea that "Walter O'Dim" is essentially the Devil and his ritual is intentionally uncanny and unseemly but he's still depicted as a man. When he starts rapidly jack-knifing and jumping back and forth over a dead bum, spitting on him, you have no choice but to see it literally. It's not as if he turned into a blur or a black fog or something like that. It's just a guy bouncing around. I think it would have worked better if that's what Allie tried to describe it as because she couldn't otherwise put it into words. 3.) I'm not certain that the Gunslinger had a chubby fetish so much as he had a burning desire to get the man in black which crossed over into the sexual, or if the man in black's influence was so seductive that it even affected the Gunslinger. 4.) Not really an elephant in the room but internal slang. You can understand the meaning just fine or at least assume you'll be filled in on it later. King does a decent job of explaining what things mean down the road.
If I had to bring up any character for discussion, it would be Sylvia Pittson. What's her deal? And what's the deal with NINETEEN? It's not the first time King has played with numbers. Room 1408 comes to mind with the voice on the phone. It's all good. No pressure in this Circle. I knew it was going to be slow going in the first part because not a lot to talk about until the story gets going. Also I know everybody has outside lives, so never going to pressure anybody to discuss. I totally agree. There is something off kilter from the beginning. The very first time I read it the first inclining I had was Hey Jude, but I read it when I was 13 so I give myself a break. :) 1. I interpreted it always as the first subsection and last subsection are present day for Roland. He starts to sleep and dream from the devil grass. In both of these sections (first and last) there is no mention of the mule. The Mule died at Browns. The first sub section ends on him sleeping. The next subsection he has the mule. In the last subsection he wakes up and walks also with no mule. Now the mule could've been there in the beginning sub section and not mentioned until after he went to sleep, but I don't think so. So yeah in my mind its dream of brown, flash back to Tull, Flashback to Nort. 2. We've briefly discussed this before. I see your point. That it doesn't paint a very sinister antagonist. That the visuals are silly. With out spoilers, and being vague he isn't supposed to be the Devil. I mean he's on the Devil's side though, obviously :) I think the idea to bring out his Court Jester, Tittering, and Manic side here is so you can Juxtapose it to his serious side later. I will admit though the tumbling puts me off more than the spitting. 3. I was kinda joking there. I never put much thought to her as a character tbh. The only thing I ever remember about her is 300lbs and Roland's desire for her. Guess I'm being a little hard on her. 4. I know a few people who have read it and they always asked about certain words/phrases. I thought this might be a universal reaction for first time readers. So just a pigmy elephant in the room. Edit: I can't really talk about 19 for inuniverse reasons. King got a little obsessed with 19 after getting hit by the car. Every book after that he puts 19's in it. Either blatant like 19th street. Or sometimes you have to add numbers together or other obscure ways. The most obscure one? In 11/22/63 the main character goes back in time The Dat he leaves to Date he gets sent to is... 19,000 days. You aren't being unfair to Sylvia. You are seeing her through the 2023 eyes of this universe. In his universe, she might have looked like an actual fertility goddess. There was definitely juxtaposition there for a reason. And don't forget, she may have had some kind if an illusion put on her by Walter. I kind of got that impression. There was ddefinitely something dark arts about their interaction. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 11, 2023 22:55:39 GMT
It's all good. No pressure in this Circle. I knew it was going to be slow going in the first part because not a lot to talk about until the story gets going. Also I know everybody has outside lives, so never going to pressure anybody to discuss. I totally agree. There is something off kilter from the beginning. The very first time I read it the first inclining I had was Hey Jude, but I read it when I was 13 so I give myself a break. :) 1. I interpreted it always as the first subsection and last subsection are present day for Roland. He starts to sleep and dream from the devil grass. In both of these sections (first and last) there is no mention of the mule. The Mule died at Browns. The first sub section ends on him sleeping. The next subsection he has the mule. In the last subsection he wakes up and walks also with no mule. Now the mule could've been there in the beginning sub section and not mentioned until after he went to sleep, but I don't think so. So yeah in my mind its dream of brown, flash back to Tull, Flashback to Nort. 2. We've briefly discussed this before. I see your point. That it doesn't paint a very sinister antagonist. That the visuals are silly. With out spoilers, and being vague he isn't supposed to be the Devil. I mean he's on the Devil's side though, obviously :) I think the idea to bring out his Court Jester, Tittering, and Manic side here is so you can Juxtapose it to his serious side later. I will admit though the tumbling puts me off more than the spitting. 3. I was kinda joking there. I never put much thought to her as a character tbh. The only thing I ever remember about her is 300lbs and Roland's desire for her. Guess I'm being a little hard on her. 4. I know a few people who have read it and they always asked about certain words/phrases. I thought this might be a universal reaction for first time readers. So just a pigmy elephant in the room. Edit: I can't really talk about 19 for inuniverse reasons. King got a little obsessed with 19 after getting hit by the car. Every book after that he puts 19's in it. Either blatant like 19th street. Or sometimes you have to add numbers together or other obscure ways. The most obscure one? In 11/22/63 the main character goes back in time The Dat he leaves to Date he gets sent to is... 19,000 days. You aren't being unfair to Sylvia. You are seeing her through the 2023 eyes of this universe. In his universe, she might have looked like an actual fertility goddess. There was definitely juxtaposition there for a reason. And don't forget, she may have had some kind if an illusion put on her by Walter. I kind of got that impression. There was ddefinitely something dark arts about their interaction. True. Hell even in our world body standards change. Never thought about her having a glamor or illusionary spell on her. I mean it would fit into The Man in Black's power set. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 13, 2023 1:53:07 GMT
I have a question. When you Picture the Mohaine Desert in your head what do you see? Hard red stone erupting from red grit or maybe sandier desert like Sahara. I know it's based on Westerns so it could be the red stone, but a lot of the old westerns were filmed in Italy. Which has it's on style of desert.
What you think?
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 13, 2023 4:36:40 GMT
I know this might be a little strange for new comers to the books or to a reading discussion. It's ok. No one will judge you. If there is something you don't get, or you want a little more background it's ok to ask. Hell that's one of the main parts of a discussion group. Don't be intermediated about sharing your opinions. We all want to read this and help each other out.
With that I will open discussions on The Way Station tomorrow.
If there is somebody that is falling behind PM me.
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 13, 2023 21:30:36 GMT
The Way Station Chapter is open to free discussion. This part was around 60 pages or 1hr 10 minutes While we are discussing The Way Station online this week irl you should be tackling The Oracle and the Mountains It is about 50 pages or about an hour. The last 2 chapters Slow Mutants and The Gunslinger and the Man in Black Will be combined. I know this might be new some of you. Or maybe a little bit intimidated. You shouldn't. There isn't any judging her. Or picking on some one if they ask a question. Feel Free to talk, discuss ask questions etc. The Trashcan Man bartlesby Boricanator ofunknownorigins Dracula bomtombadil tommyrockarolla TheGoodMan19 san926f 🐾 Molly 🐾
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