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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jun 10, 2018 13:34:05 GMT
Look everything isn't black and white. You don't have to be a mad communist or a Brexiteer, there are other options you know. I couldn't give a shit about the labour leadership, but at least they do it in public (although there's far too much Union sway involved). Johnson and Gove are disloyal to a point of pathological though and you would have to be blind deaf and dumb not to know that. Boris was a staunch European as mayor of London and did a complete 360 the minute he realised he could further his quest for the leadership. If you think he wouldn't swing back in a heartbeat if it got him the job of PM then you are conning yourself. Gove is loathed far more in his own party than by any other politicians along with his wife who pushes his agenda in her Daily Mail column every chance she gets. The fact that May can't sack them shows how utterly fragile her position is and how incapable of Governing the country the Tory party has become in it's obsession with Brexit. If Cameron and then May hadn't sacked most of the civil service negotiators in their misjudged "austerity" cuts we wouldn't be in the utter mess we are. When you have to depend on David Davis and Liam Fox, you really know you're fucked. Alright, calm down.
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essex
Pussy Galore
Posts: 76
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Post by essex on Jun 10, 2018 13:45:52 GMT
No. He took on the EU, won, and walked away when his country really needed him. Hmm, I'm not sure his country wanted him. The government certainly didn't. What would you have had him do? Most of our country would want him in a position of leadership, outside the metropolitan bubble of London. And had he joined the Conservatives, there would have been a massive groundswell of support for him - seeing as how modern UKIP really did stem from the deep divisions in the party between Europhiles and Eurosceptics.
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Post by yggdrasil on Jun 10, 2018 13:58:12 GMT
Hmm, I'm not sure his country wanted him. The government certainly didn't. What would you have had him do? Most of our country would want him in a position of leadership, outside the metropolitan bubble of London. And had he joined the Conservatives, there would have been a massive groundswell of support for him - seeing as how modern UKIP really did stem from the deep divisions in the party between Europhiles and Eurosceptics. "metropolitan bubble of London" (copyright Paul Dacre)....you forgot to add that us Londoners are all "cultural marxists" as well. Political discussion by soundbite, how far we have fallen in so few years. No wonder so many get swayed by little Englanders like Faragé.
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essex
Pussy Galore
Posts: 76
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Post by essex on Jun 10, 2018 14:05:07 GMT
Most of our country would want him in a position of leadership, outside the metropolitan bubble of London. And had he joined the Conservatives, there would have been a massive groundswell of support for him - seeing as how modern UKIP really did stem from the deep divisions in the party between Europhiles and Eurosceptics. "metropolitan bubble of London" (copyright Paul Dacre)....you forgot to add that us Londoners are all "cultural marxists" as well. Political discussion by soundbite, how far we have fallen in so few years. No wonder so many get swayed by little Englanders like Faragé. You must admit that power in England - from politics to economics to the media - is too centralised in London. It's gotten to the point where they believe their interests reflect those of the rest of the nation, so that when we have a situation like Brexit, the establishment is taken completely off guard because they have not made any genuine effort to understand the concerns of the rest of the country.
This is particularly true of our Northern citizens. Who, for generations, have been used as guinea pigs for every harebrained scheme Westminster can cook up. It's not enough to sneer from an ivory tower, you have to engage with the whole country, not just the parts which confirm your own biases. You must see that.
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Post by yggdrasil on Jun 10, 2018 14:44:48 GMT
"metropolitan bubble of London" (copyright Paul Dacre)....you forgot to add that us Londoners are all "cultural marxists" as well. Political discussion by soundbite, how far we have fallen in so few years. No wonder so many get swayed by little Englanders like Faragé. You must admit that power in England - from politics to economics to the media - is too centralised in London. It's gotten to the point where they believe their interests reflect those of the rest of the nation, so that when we have a situation like Brexit, the establishment is taken completely off guard because they have not made any genuine effort to understand the concerns of the rest of the country.
This is particularly true of our Northern citizens. Who, for generations, have been used as guinea pigs for every harebrained scheme Westminster can cook up. It's not enough to sneer from an ivory tower, you have to engage with the whole country, not just the parts which confirm your own biases. You must see that.
Well the BBC was shipped up north to Manchester so don't really see them fitting the picture. The Conservatives have always treated the North poorly as they saw it as a Labour heartland and didn't much care for it for that reason. But then people further North of North see North as better treated than they are so perhaps there are people in Caithness feeling royally shafted. We are talking one issue really, which is immigration, and as the flames were fed by UKIP and the right wing media there was a great move to find easy answers and someone to blame for all of societies ills and these folk fitted the bill nicely. If the economy had been booming and everyone was feeling flush then there wouldn't have been so much of a swing to jingoism. The problem is that "old fashioned" public service believing politicians have mainly gone the way of the space hopper and been replaced by smarmy snake oil salesmen in sharp suits who are doing a 5/10 year stint before jumping into 5 or 6 obscenely paid part time jobs linked to the political departments they worked in (George Osborne anybody) This is also the reason that Corbyn is doing so well as like him or loathe him he actually believes in stuff which is anathema to the public school brigade. Anyway, people up north don't know how lucky they are, they can have a pie and a pint without taking out a second mortgage and don't have to put up with loud Americans and Japanese folk with too many cameras asking stupid bloody questions when they walk around their home city.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jun 10, 2018 14:50:53 GMT
had he joined the Conservatives That wasn't an option. He was not invited.
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