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Post by Meseia on Apr 9, 2023 4:19:21 GMT
Some Biblical scholars interpret the disciples in the Gospel of Mark as never understanding Jesus' nature until the Transfiguration when God called him Son. Peter might have been on the trail when he called Jesus the Messiah but later shows signs, he doesn't understand that Jesus is to be a sacrifice. Generally, the disciples seem naiver and more clueless in Mark than Matthew. The first person in Mark to really get it is the Centurion at the Crucifixion. This has led some to believe that Mark is heavily influenced by Paul who wasn't impressed with the original apostles and may have even been antagonistic.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 9, 2023 10:07:43 GMT
Interesting take. I daresay Mark reads closer to the Q source, since not only are the disciples clueless, but so is his family. You’d think the Virgin Mary would have gotten it, considering she was in direct contact with God before Jesus was. Do you think all those scenes in the Bible really happen exactly as written?
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Post by clusium on Apr 9, 2023 12:06:39 GMT
Interesting take. I daresay Mark reads closer to the Q source, since not only are the disciples clueless, but so is his family. You’d think the Virgin Mary would have gotten it, considering she was in direct contact with God before Jesus was. Do you think all those scenes in the Bible really happen exactly as written? The Virgin Mary was being used by the other family members to try to lure Our Lord outside of the house. Our Lady was a widow at this point, & the other family members brought her as a way of trying to say to the Lord Jesus, "Think of Your poor Widowed Mother.... ". |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 9, 2023 20:51:47 GMT
Interesting take. I daresay Mark reads closer to the Q source, since not only are the disciples clueless, but so is his family. You’d think the Virgin Mary would have gotten it, considering she was in direct contact with God before Jesus was. Do you think all those scenes in the Bible really happen exactly as written? The Virgin Mary was being used by the other family members to try to lure Our Lord outside of the house. Our Lady was a widow at this point, & the other family members brought her as a way of trying to say to the Lord Jesus, "Think of Your poor Widowed Mother.... ". That’s not in the Bible. |
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Post by clusium on Apr 9, 2023 21:27:38 GMT
The Virgin Mary was being used by the other family members to try to lure Our Lord outside of the house. Our Lady was a widow at this point, & the other family members brought her as a way of trying to say to the Lord Jesus, "Think of Your poor Widowed Mother.... ". That’s not in the Bible. What is in the Bible is that it was revealed to Mary, at the moment of her Son's Virginal Conception, that He Is the Messiah. It was revealed in St. John's Gospel that some of Our Lord's relatives did not believe in Him, & yet, His Mother is not mentioned (Gospel according to St. John, chapter 7). |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 9, 2023 21:40:22 GMT
What is in the Bible is that it was revealed to Mary, at the moment of her Son's Virginal Conception, that He Is the Messiah. It was revealed in St. John's Gospel that some of Our Lord's relatives did not believe in Him, & yet, His Mother is not mentioned (Gospel according to St. John, chapter 7). And that story was written by a Greek Pagan Christian, probably a convert, in order to make Jesus a god as the author saw befitting someone who could raise himself from the dead. Jesus probably was a god to him, no different than Apollo or Osiris. |
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Post by clusium on Apr 9, 2023 22:15:21 GMT
What is in the Bible is that it was revealed to Mary, at the moment of her Son's Virginal Conception, that He Is the Messiah. It was revealed in St. John's Gospel that some of Our Lord's relatives did not believe in Him, & yet, His Mother is not mentioned (Gospel according to St. John, chapter 7). And that story was written by a Greek Pagan Christian, probably a convert, in order to make Jesus a god as the author saw befitting someone who could raise himself from the dead. Jesus probably was a god to him, no different than Apollo or Osiris. It was written by St. John the Evangelist. |
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Post by Meseia on Apr 10, 2023 0:23:41 GMT
Interesting take. I daresay Mark reads closer to the Q source, since not only are the disciples clueless, but so is his family. You’d think the Virgin Mary would have gotten it, considering she was in direct contact with God before Jesus was. Do you think all those scenes in the Bible really happen exactly as written? No, I think it almost all fiction although I believe there probably was a man named Jesus that inspired the stories. But it's more fun to discuss literally since that's how the bulk of Christians believe. For example, the story of the fig tree is metaphorical but it's fun to point out that Jesus (metaphorically) cursed a fig tree out of season. |
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Post by djorno on Apr 22, 2023 14:41:07 GMT
Interesting take. I daresay Mark reads closer to the Q source, since not only are the disciples clueless, but so is his family. You’d think the Virgin Mary would have gotten it, considering she was in direct contact with God before Jesus was. Do you think all those scenes in the Bible really happen exactly as written? No, I think it almost all fiction although I believe there probably was a man named Jesus that inspired the stories. But it's more fun to discuss literally since that's how the bulk of Christians believe. For example, the story of the fig tree is metaphorical but it's fun to point out that Jesus (metaphorically) cursed a fig tree out of season. Why are skeptics so hung up on this “Jesus cursed a fig tree”? |
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Post by Meseia on Apr 22, 2023 21:50:04 GMT
No, I think it almost all fiction although I believe there probably was a man named Jesus that inspired the stories. But it's more fun to discuss literally since that's how the bulk of Christians believe. For example, the story of the fig tree is metaphorical but it's fun to point out that Jesus (metaphorically) cursed a fig tree out of season. Why are skeptics so hung up on this “Jesus cursed a fig tree”? Christians are hung up on it too. It was one the favorites when I was attending church. Figs being out of season breaks the metaphor. Whoever thought it up wasn't thinking enough. |
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Post by djorno on Apr 22, 2023 23:27:43 GMT
Why are skeptics so hung up on this “Jesus cursed a fig tree”? Christians are hung up on it too. It was one the favorites when I was attending church. Figs being out of season breaks the metaphor. Whoever thought it up wasn't thinking enough. How does it break the metaphor? |
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Post by Meseia on Apr 23, 2023 2:59:24 GMT
Christians are hung up on it too. It was one the favorites when I was attending church. Figs being out of season breaks the metaphor. Whoever thought it up wasn't thinking enough. How does it break the metaphor? The fig tree is a common Biblical metaphor for Israel. The metaphor is broken because the reason the tree has no fruit is because God made it that way. Jesus is rebuking the tree for being the way God made it which is a metaphor for God rebuking Israel for not doing his work because he made them unable to do his work. |
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Post by djorno on Apr 23, 2023 9:04:01 GMT
How does it break the metaphor? The fig tree is a common Biblical metaphor for Israel. The metaphor is broken because the reason the tree has no fruit is because God made it that way. Jesus is rebuking the tree for being the way God made it which is a metaphor for God rebuking Israel for not doing his work because he made them unable to do his work. Not quite. If you do some research on fig trees you’ll discover that the fruit appears first, before the leaves. That means when you see a tree with leaves on it you should expect it to also to contain fruit, even if it’s not in the right season. In fact the fruit is edible before it’s even ripe. So when Jesus saw from afar that the tree had leaves, he could expect it to also have fruit. When he realized the tree had no figs he knew it was not going to bear any fruit come season neither. This event took place in the spring right around the time of fig season, when it gets close to sprouting something appears called taksh. These are immature figs. Jesus was simply looking for a sign that the fig tree was fruitful and would produce figs at fig season. The fact that it was fruitless indicated that it was barren and good for nothing and better to be destroyed. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 23, 2023 12:19:01 GMT
The fig tree is a common Biblical metaphor for Israel. The metaphor is broken because the reason the tree has no fruit is because God made it that way. Jesus is rebuking the tree for being the way God made it which is a metaphor for God rebuking Israel for not doing his work because he made them unable to do his work. Not quite. If you do some research on fig trees you’ll discover that the fruit appears first, before the leaves. That means when you see a tree with leaves on it you should expect it to also to contain fruit, even if it’s not in the right season. In fact the fruit is edible before it’s even ripe. So when Jesus saw from afar that the tree had leaves, he could expect it to also have fruit. When he realized the tree had no figs he knew it was not going to bear any fruit come season neither. This event took place in the spring right around the time of fig season, when it gets close to sprouting something appears called taksh. These are immature figs. Jesus was simply looking for a sign that the fig tree was fruitful and would produce figs at fig season. The fact that it was fruitless indicated that it was barren and good for nothing and better to be destroyed. Why curse a tree at all for doing what its creator designed it to do. |
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Post by djorno on Apr 23, 2023 13:33:48 GMT
Not quite. If you do some research on fig trees you’ll discover that the fruit appears first, before the leaves. That means when you see a tree with leaves on it you should expect it to also to contain fruit, even if it’s not in the right season. In fact the fruit is edible before it’s even ripe. So when Jesus saw from afar that the tree had leaves, he could expect it to also have fruit. When he realized the tree had no figs he knew it was not going to bear any fruit come season neither. This event took place in the spring right around the time of fig season, when it gets close to sprouting something appears called taksh. These are immature figs. Jesus was simply looking for a sign that the fig tree was fruitful and would produce figs at fig season. The fact that it was fruitless indicated that it was barren and good for nothing and better to be destroyed. Why curse a tree at all for doing what its creator designed it to do. He used it to symbolize God’s impending judgement against the nation of Israel and also in a sense unfruitful professed Christians. Jews who through sacrifices and ceremonies gave the impression of being religious outwardly but inwardly produced no spiritual fruit. |
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