Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic!

amyghost
Elektra King

Posts: 1,016

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 25, 2023 14:57:36 GMT yggdrasil, PaulsLaugh, and 1 more like this

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Post by amyghost on Dec 25, 2023 14:57:36 GMT

Dec 25, 2023 10:59:07 GMT lunda2222 said:

Nov 11, 2023 21:04:35 GMT 99999 said:

Where did you read that?

Nothing surprises me.

It's called The Virgin Cleansing Myth and it's by no means limited to Islam. Indeed it's origins comes from 16th century Christian Europe (back then it was thought to cure syphilis).

Good catch. No religion has a lock on greenlighting relatively disgusting sexual practices that regard young females as little better than chattel to be used and/or impregnated.

99999 Karl Stromberg བདེ་སྐྱིད་ /אֹשֶׁר Posts: 793	Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 25, 2023 16:47:02 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 99999 on Dec 25, 2023 16:47:02 GMT If you bothered to know that the 16th C. knew nothing about medicine. However, Islam is STILL stuck in 7th C. Arabia. WHY? It is written.
	Last Edit: Dec 25, 2023 16:49:52 GMT by 99999

yggdrasil
Miss Moneypenny

Posts: 26,963

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT amyghost likes this

Quote

Post by yggdrasil on Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT

Dec 25, 2023 16:47:02 GMT 99999 said:

If you bothered to know that the 16th C. knew nothing about medicine.

However, Islam is STILL stuck in 7th C. Arabia.

WHY?

It is written.

Another poster asked you to provide a quote to prove you weren't talking out your arse, but I notice you had run away and failed to prove it. Could you do so that we can all see you aren't just another sad troll ?

Thanks.

Hnefahogg
Auric Goldfinger

Posts: 2,880

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 12:20:23 GMT 99999 likes this

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Post by Hnefahogg on Dec 26, 2023 12:20:23 GMT

Nov 12, 2023 5:52:35 GMT drystyx said:

The mores on Pedophilia change. It was accepted in ancient Rome. The levels of Pedophilia that make women age 14-17 enough to mark young men for life is pretty recent in Western culture. Females develop and mature earlier than males. That's pretty much a necessity in every species, and it is evident in human beings. There was a huge propaganda drive somewhere around 1990 to make Americans think women mature later in life, for whatever reason, but that was biologically incorrect.

It doesn't make older women any less. It just means that women mature earlier.

A lot of cultures haven't obeyed American mores.

The question is "at what age is it totally sick?" It probably depends on the maturity of the female. I've seen some females who were fully developed at age 14 and some who were still obviously still physically children at 14.

We have read the stories of the very sick men who marry girls age 10 or so. And that's repulsive, but some cultures have made this part of their mores. If we were raised in that culture, would we think it was normal or abnormal? I would think so, but who knows? I wonder if anyone has ever interviewed some 30 or 40 or 50 year old women who married at incredibly young ages and seen whatever would be the effect on them.

It could be argued that most cultures historically considered the age of adulthood to start at the age of 13 or 14. The Byzantine Empire had a fixed age of 13 for marriage. I think the meaning of the Jewish Bar Mitzvah is to symbolise adulthood, and the same can go for Christian confirmation (although apparently some Christians deny that it's a rite of adulthood).

Confirmation in Norway – from childhood to adulthood
www.littlescandinavian.com/2017/05/08/confirmation-in-norway-all-you-will-need-to-know/

Attraction to pubescent children is called hebephiilia though, if we are going to be technical with the terms. Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children. There is also no fixed age for puberty. There are 13-year old girls who could pass for adults while a boy I grew up with had his voice break at 16 from what I can remember.

Hnefahogg
Auric Goldfinger

Posts: 2,880

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 12:33:53 GMT 99999 likes this

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Post by Hnefahogg on Dec 26, 2023 12:33:53 GMT

Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT yggdrasil said:

Another poster asked you to provide a quote to prove you weren't talking out your arse, but I notice you had run away and failed to prove it. Could you do so that we can all see you aren't just another sad troll ?

Thanks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/18qw22u/comment/keyk303/

TEXT:

17 sahih Hadiths that say she was 9 at consummation and 4 of those say 18 when Muhammed died.

1- sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1877 7,9,18 = not Hisham qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=51944 kufa

2- sunnah.com/muslim:1422c 7,9,18 = not Hisham qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=13507 Medinah Yemen up to razzaq. 13508 Kufa before Hisham.

3- sunnah.com/muslim:1422d 6,9,18

4- sunnah.com/nasai:3258 9,18 = not Hisham qaalarasulallah.com/hadith.php?ID=43270 Kufa

5- sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1876 6,9

6- sunnah.com/abudawud:2121 7/6 ,9

7- sunnah.com/nasai:3256 7,9

8 - sunnah.com/nasai:3378 6,9

9- sunnah.com/nasai:3257 9, 9y

10- sunnah.com/nasai:3255 6,9

11- sunnah.com/bukhari:5134 6,9,9y

12- sunnah.com/bukhari:3894 6,9

13- sunnah.com/bukhari:5133 6,9,9y

14- sunnah.com/bukhari:5158 6,9,9y

15- sunnah.com/bukhari:3896 6,9

16- sunnah.com/muslim:1422a 6,9

17- sunnah.com/muslim:1422b 6,9

The “Fatawa Islamiyah”. It has a fatwa on suitable marriage ages in Vol 5 archive.org/details/001.-fatawa-islamiyah-islamic-verdicts-vol.-1/005.%20Fatawa-Islamiyah-Islamic-Verdicts-Vol.-5/page/169/mode/2up?view=theater “the Prophet married ‘A’ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, when he was fifty-three years old and she was a girl of nine years old.”

Dar al-Ifta al Misriyyah (Egypt ) considered among the pioneering foundations for fatwa in the Islamic world.It has been the premier institute to represent Islam and the international flagship for Islamic legal research. en.dar-alifta.org/article/details/144/why-did-prophet-muhammad-marry-lady-aisha-when-she-was-only-9-years-old “Why did Prophet Muhammad marry lady 'Aisha when she was only 9 years old?”

2008 Assembly of Muslim Jurists in America (amja) www.amjaonline.org/fatwa/en/78123/the-prophets-marriage-from-aisha-when-she-was-nine 2008 responds to article was published in Issue 0, page 21 in “The Seventh Day Newspaper” which was published 15/7/2008. (Asma, Tabari 610 pre-islam, fatima, Ibn Kathir early Muslim, Hijra Habasha, Hisham, Many hadiths and dols confirm, normal/culture/puberty, )

2012 askimam.org/public/question_detail/21031 lists the article in Dawn-newspaper 17/02/2012 Nilofar Ahmed Read more at askimam.org/public/question_detail/21031 claiming Aisha was not young and destroys it. (Hisham, Bikr, 4.6, lists other minor marriages, fatima, badr, kunyah,)urway amazing knowledge at 8, asma 10)

www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/191627/age-of-aaishah-may-allaah-be-pleased-with-her-at-her-marriage Firmly establishes Aisha’s age at Bukhari 6/9. “Qatar ministry of religious affairs. Fatwa Team: In this site, there is a committee of specialists that is responsible for preparing, checking and approving the Fatwa. This committee comprises a group of licentiate graduates from the Islamic University, Al-Imaam Muhammad Bin Sa’oud Islamic University in Saudi Arabia, and graduates who studied Islamic sciences from scholars at Mosques and other Islamic educational institues in Yemen and Mauritania. This special committee is headed by Dr. ‘Abdullaah Al-Faqeeh, specialist in Jurisprudence and Arabic language.” Responds to unnamed article that uses asma and engagement arguments. 2/12/2012

2015 islamqa.info/en/answers/122534/refutation-of-the-lie-that-the-prophet-blessings-and-peace-of-allah-be-upon-him-married-aaishah-when-she-was-18-years-old 16/01/2015 Refutes an article called “Young journalist corrects a thousand-year-old mistake of leading scholars” (Ibn Kathir early muslims, Asma ) also openly states that Aisha may have been prepubescent at consummation.

2018 Yaqeen Institute (USA) yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/the-age-of-aisha-ra-rejecting-historical-revisionism-and-modernist-presumptions addresses Hisham, Asma, Fatima, Uhud, Surah 54/Moon

[...]

Thanks for your kind words.

Note that according to 3 of the 6 canonical collections (Bukhari, Muslim and Ibn Majah) Aisha was a consentless minor at the time of consummation.

Two translations of Bukhari's chapter stating that a Father is allowed to marry off minors by Q65:4 and then illustrating that fact with Bukhari 5133 (in Bewley 4840).

So Bukhari thought Aisha was handed over as a prepubescent minor.

Evidences:

Dar-es-salam All-in-one Bukhari transl. M. Khan.

archive.org/details/all-in-one-sahih-al-bukhari-eng-arabic/page/6/mode/2up

“67-THE BOOK OF AN-NIKAH (The Wedlock)

(۳۹) باب إنكاح الرجل ولده الصغار، لقول الله تعالى : (والتي لم يحضن» [الطلاق : 4] فجعل عدتها ثلاثة أشهر قبل البلوغ .

(39) CHAPTER. Giving one's young children in marriage (is permissible). By virtue of the Statement of Allah: "...and for those who have no (monthly) courses (le. they are still immature)..."(V. 65.4) And the 'Idda for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).

5133. Narrated 'Aishah that the Prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (.e. till his death).

Aisha Bewley’s translation of Bukhari (same Arabic souce). aishabewley.org/bukhari35

XXXIX. A man giving his young children in marriage

By the words of Allah, "that also applies to those who have not yet menstruated" (65:4) and He made the 'idda of a girl before puberty three months.

4840. It is related from 'A'isha that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, married her when she was six years old and consummated it when she was nine, and she was his wife for nine years.

Fatwas that use Bukhari’s opinion that Aisha was a minor at consummation:

www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405 or use translate.google.com/translate?js=n&tl=en&u=https://www.alfawzan.af.org.sa/ar/node/13405

Al-Fawzan specifically and explicitly mentions that Q65:4 is used by Bukhari.

islamqa.info/en/answers/12708/is-it-acceptable-to-marry-a-girl-who-has-not-yet-started-her-menses Muslim 1422 and Bukhari 5133 (listed as 4840)

islamqa.info/en/answers/22442/on-acting-and-the-ruling-on-marrying-young-girls Muslim 1422 and Bukhari 5133 (listed as 4840)

Sahih Muslim (Book of Marriage). He first discusses how a matron and a virgin can give consent. Then how a young virgin has no consent.

archive.org/details/AllInOne-Hadiths-EngArabicDarusalam_201407/All%20in%20One-Sahih%20Muslim-Eng-Arabic-Darusalam/page/n1721/mode/2up

Chapter 9. Seeking Permission Of A Previously-Married Woman In Words, And Of A Virgin By Silence [3473] 64 (1419) Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah said : "A previously-married woman should not be married until she has been consulted, and a virgin should not be married until her permission has been sought." They said : "O Messenger of Allah. what is her permission?" He said : "If she remains silent."

Chapter 10. It Is Permissible For A Father To Arrange The Marriage Of A Young Virgin

[3479] 69 (1422) It was narrated that 'Aishah said : "The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six years old and he lived with me when I was nine years old." She said : "We came to Al Madinah and I fell sick for a month and my hair came down to my neck. Umm Rúmân came to me when I was on a swing and some of my friends were with me. She called me loudly and I went to her, and I did not know what she wanted of me. She took me by the hand and made me stand at the door. I said : 'Hah, Hah (as if gasping for breath) until I had calmed down, then she took me into a house where there were some women of the Ansar who said : 'With good wishes, and blessings, and good fortune. She handed me over to them and they washed my hair and adorned me, and then suddenly the Messenger of Allâh was there, and they handed me over to him."

No consent needed or asked because a non-baligh virgin is too young for consent.

Ibn Majah in his book of Marriage also baligh virgins have consent, minors do not.

Chapter 11. Seeking The Consent Of Virgins And Previously-Married Women 1870. It was narrated from Ibn 'Abbâs that the Messenger of Allâh said : "A widow has more right (to decide), concerning herself than her guardian, and a virgin should be consulted." It was said : "O Messenger of Allah, a virgin may be too shy to speak." He said : "Her consent is her silence." (Sahih) archive.org/details/AllInOne-Hadiths-EngArabicDarusalam_201407/All%20in%20One-Sunan-Ibn%20Majah-Eng/page/n1135/mode/2up

Chapter 13. Marriage of Minor Girls Arranged By Their Fathers

1876. It was narrated that Aishah said : "The Messenger of Allâh married me when I was six years old. Then we came to Al-Madinah and settled among Banu Harith bin Khazraj. I "became ill and my hair fell out, then it grew back and became abundant. My mother Umm Rumân came to me while I was on an Urjuhah with some of my friends, and called for me. I went do her, and I did not know what she wanted. She took me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house, and I was panting. When I got my breath back, she took some water and wiped my face and head, and led me into the house. There were some woman of the Ansár inside the house, and they said : "With the blessings and good fortune (from Allah). (My mother) handed me over to them and they tidied me up. And suddenly I saw the Messenger of Allah in the morning. And she handed me over to him and I was at that time, nine years old." (Sahih)

Ibn Majah categorised Aisha as a minor. Aisha was not asked for consent because she was prepubescent. It also adds the note after the hadith (p 77):

Comments : a. The marriage bond of a girl who is not yet adult (has not reached the age of puberty) is perfectly valid in Islam. b. Urjuhah refers to both, a swing and a seesaw; it is a long piece of wood, its middle is placed at a high place and the children sit on both ends, when its one side goes down the other side goes up; it is called seesaw in English. c. It is recommended to beautify the bride when she leaves for her husband's home.

Last Edit: Dec 26, 2023 12:42:23 GMT by Hnefahogg

99999
Karl Stromberg

བདེ་སྐྱིད་ /אֹשֶׁר

Posts: 793

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 16:17:18 GMT

Quote

Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:17:18 GMT

Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT yggdrasil said:

Dec 25, 2023 16:47:02 GMT 99999 said:

If you bothered to know that the 16th C. knew nothing about medicine.

However, Islam is STILL stuck in 7th C. Arabia.

WHY?

It is written.

Another poster asked you to provide a quote to prove you weren't talking out your arse, but I notice you had run away and failed to prove it. Could you do so that we can all see you aren't just another sad troll ?

Thanks.

I do NOT run away but stand by the truth. Grow up, dork.

yggdrasil
Miss Moneypenny

Posts: 26,963

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 16:21:06 GMT

Quote

Post by yggdrasil on Dec 26, 2023 16:21:06 GMT

Dec 26, 2023 16:17:18 GMT 99999 said:

Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT yggdrasil said:

Another poster asked you to provide a quote to prove you weren't talking out your arse, but I notice you had run away and failed to prove it. Could you do so that we can all see you aren't just another sad troll ?

Thanks.

I do NOT run away but stand by the truth. Grow up, dork.

Just provide the quote, so we can see you are truthful.

PaulsLaugh
M

Posts: 44,930

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 16:25:12 GMT amyghost likes this

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Post by PaulsLaugh on Dec 26, 2023 16:25:12 GMT

Dec 25, 2023 14:57:36 GMT amyghost said:

Dec 25, 2023 10:59:07 GMT lunda2222 said:

It's called The Virgin Cleansing Myth and it's by no means limited to Islam. Indeed it's origins comes from 16th century Christian Europe (back then it was thought to cure syphilis).

Good catch. No religion has a lock on greenlighting relatively disgusting sexual practices that regard young females as little better than chattel to be used and/or impregnated.

The Bible clearly says the young virgins of the defeated enemy are for the Israelite warriors to do as they please with.

Listen to Greg Locke preach if you want to hear some sick woman-hating, sex perv shit in real time.

We live, so we are told, in a post-ideological society. We are addressed by social authority not as subjects who should do their duty, but subjects of pleasures: ‘Realize your true potential,’ ‘Be yourself,’ ‘Lead a satisfying life.’ When you put the glasses on, you see dictatorship in democracy.

99999
Karl Stromberg

བདེ་སྐྱིད་ /אֹשֶׁר

Posts: 793

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 16:28:39 GMT Meseia likes this

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Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:28:39 GMT

Dec 26, 2023 16:21:06 GMT yggdrasil said:

Dec 26, 2023 16:17:18 GMT 99999 said:

I do NOT run away but stand by the truth. Grow up, dork.

Just provide the quote, so we can see you are truthful.

Here is your quote, so knock yourself out.

“The Prophet [ﷺ] married Aisha when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.” - The revered Sahih al-Bukhari, 5134; Book 67, Hadith 70.

99999 Karl Stromberg བདེ་སྐྱིད་ /אֹשֶׁר Posts: 793	Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic! Dec 26, 2023 16:29:50 GMT Hnefahogg likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:29:50 GMT Hnefahogg, thanks for your complete listing.

Islam: Pedophilia is Koranic!

Post by amyghost on Dec 25, 2023 14:57:36 GMT

Post by 99999 on Dec 25, 2023 16:47:02 GMT

Post by yggdrasil on Dec 26, 2023 10:15:38 GMT

Post by Hnefahogg on Dec 26, 2023 12:20:23 GMT

Post by Hnefahogg on Dec 26, 2023 12:33:53 GMT

Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:17:18 GMT

Post by yggdrasil on Dec 26, 2023 16:21:06 GMT

Post by PaulsLaugh on Dec 26, 2023 16:25:12 GMT

Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:28:39 GMT

Post by 99999 on Dec 26, 2023 16:29:50 GMT