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Post by Winter_King on Mar 17, 2024 20:49:52 GMT
Who cares about NATO. Orban is the only leader in Europe seriously trying to protect his country from demographic replacement. That's what this is actually about. Nobody in power really thinks Putin is going anywhere beyond eastern Ukraine, and that Hungary is in a position to do anything either. They're no threat to the west. A lot of people think Putin will make a play for the Baltics and Moldova. So what you wrote isn’t really correct. The Baltics are in NATO. Russia has struggled for 2 years in Ukraine, lost thousands of men and material. I don't think he's stupid enough to attempt to take the entire Ukraine so I doubt he will be stupid enough to attack a NATO country directly. |
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 17, 2024 20:51:57 GMT
I'm more concerned about the EU using the threat of disinformation to censor views that fly against the narrative. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 17, 2024 21:02:09 GMT
... The Baltics are in NATO. Russia has struggled for 2 years in Ukraine, lost thousands of men and material. I don't think he's stupid enough to attempt to take the entire Ukraine so I doubt he will be stupid enough to attack a NATO country directly. ... Well, the Baltics are under extremely high pressure of Russian disinformation bc of the many Russians living there who might be prone to that. And there had been a high amount of cyber attacks. |
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 17, 2024 21:23:00 GMT
Jesus, just look at the struggle the Russians are having in Ukraine, they'll do good to keep roughly what they currently have, they're not taking the whole country of Ukraine. So why do Russians still continue to step forward where they are given the chance to? I will give you the answer: they want to get the whole southern coast of Ukraine for getting a land bridge to Transnistria! This is in Moldova. Moldova wants to join the EU. So we are affected! You are aware that not long ago Kremlin propagandist Vladimir Solovyov has warned that Russia is poised to "destroy" Poland? It does not really matter anymore whether he really does intend to do that - it's about that we have to show unity regarding these threads! That shit about Transnistria is a wishlist, they're not getting western Ukraine and the Poland comment is an idle threat designed to frighten Eastern European countries, but if they invade Poland via Belarus they wouldn't be able to handle the repercussions and the Russians know it. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 17, 2024 21:36:07 GMT
That shit about Transnistria is a wishlist, 15 years ago we would have said the same about Crimea... |
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 17, 2024 21:50:40 GMT
That shit about Transnistria is a wishlist, 15 years ago we would have said the same about Crimea... The only reason they got Crimea was that the Obama administration simply let them have it. None of you biased fucks called him a Putin puppet either. None if you blinked an eye. Had there been the slightest bit of pushback it probably wouldn't have happened. |
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 18, 2024 9:37:58 GMT
... The Baltics are in NATO. Russia has struggled for 2 years in Ukraine, lost thousands of men and material. I don't think he's stupid enough to attempt to take the entire Ukraine so I doubt he will be stupid enough to attack a NATO country directly. ... Well, the Baltics are under extremely high pressure of Russian disinformation bc of the many Russians living there who might be prone to that. And there had been a high amount of cyber attacks. That still doesn't change the fact that all three Baltic countries are in NATO and doesn't sound like they want to leave. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 19, 2024 11:17:27 GMT
Well, the Baltics are under extremely high pressure of Russian disinformation bc of the many Russians living there who might be prone to that. And there had been a high amount of cyber attacks. That still doesn't change the fact that all three Baltic countries are in NATO and doesn't sound like they want to leave. And all 3 of the Baltic nations see the parallel between Ukraine and their situation: - They were former Soviet Union - They have a certain amount of Russian people living there - there is a little Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania (former Eastern Prussia) Russia would love to widen the land bridge to And Trump's remarks undermine the unity of Nato. So if Putin succeeds in getting the land bridge to Transnistria - why would he not try to get his land bridge to Kaliningrad, too. Once he knows the USA is out of the game he can use sowing the seeds of distrust in the European part of Nato - would Spain help defending Estonia if attacked? Would Portugal help Lithuania if attacked? Would Italy help Latvia if attacked? Would Turkey help Finland if attacked? Would Germany help Poland if attacked? (hey, up until Tusk helping reestablish the Weimar triangle the former Polish govt. was hostile towards Germany...) It will cost Putin only some 10,000s of Russian and others life's to try it out. And they are cheap. |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 19, 2024 11:20:29 GMT
The second Koningsberg bridge problem?!
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 19, 2024 11:28:12 GMT
That still doesn't change the fact that all three Baltic countries are in NATO and doesn't sound like they want to leave. And all 3 of the Baltic nations see the parallel between Ukraine and their situation: - They were former Soviet Union - They have a certain amount of Russian people living there - there is a little Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania (former Eastern Prussia) Russia would love to widen the land bridge to And Trump's remarks undermine the unity of Nato. So if Putin succeeds in getting the land bridge to Transnistria - why would he not try to get his land bridge to Kaliningrad, too. Once he knows the USA is out of the game he can use sowing the seeds of distrust in the European part of Nato - would Spain help defending Estonia if attacked? Would Portugal help Lithuania if attacked? Would Italy help Latvia if attacked? Would Turkey help Finland if attacked? Would Germany help Poland if attacked? (hey, up until Tusk helping reestablish the Weimar triangle the former Polish govt. was hostile towards Germany...) It will cost Putin only some 10,000s of Russian and others life's to try it out. And they are cheap. The US being out of the game is at this moment an hypothetical, even if Trump wins the presidency. He said he do a bunch of things that he ended up not doing. And yes, I'm expecting that member states of NATO to fullfill their obligations. Even assuming that NATO is over, these countries are still in the EU and naturally the EU would support them I think. But hey, if they are concerned they should be increasing their military budget to absurd levels and refraining from making dumbass comments like Edgars Rinkēvičs who said "Russia delenda est!" or Kaja Kalas who implied that we shouldn't fear nuclear war. Because those aren't helpful at all. In fact the EU countries should be coordinating on military spending given that the military budget of the EU combined is superior to Russian military budget. Instead the EU looks like it's still waiting for the US to save us. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 19, 2024 13:18:51 GMT
And all 3 of the Baltic nations see the parallel between Ukraine and their situation: - They were former Soviet Union - They have a certain amount of Russian people living there - there is a little Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania (former Eastern Prussia) Russia would love to widen the land bridge to And Trump's remarks undermine the unity of Nato. So if Putin succeeds in getting the land bridge to Transnistria - why would he not try to get his land bridge to Kaliningrad, too. Once he knows the USA is out of the game he can use sowing the seeds of distrust in the European part of Nato - would Spain help defending Estonia if attacked? Would Portugal help Lithuania if attacked? Would Italy help Latvia if attacked? Would Turkey help Finland if attacked? Would Germany help Poland if attacked? (hey, up until Tusk helping reestablish the Weimar triangle the former Polish govt. was hostile towards Germany...) It will cost Putin only some 10,000s of Russian and others life's to try it out. And they are cheap. The US being out of the game is at this moment an hypothetical, even if Trump wins the presidency. He said he do a bunch of things that he ended up not doing. And yes, I'm expecting that member states of NATO to fullfill their obligations. Even assuming that NATO is over, these countries are still in the EU and naturally the EU would support them I think. But hey, if they are concerned they should be increasing their military budget to absurd levels and refraining from making dumbass comments like Edgars Rinkēvičs who said "Russia delenda est!" or Kaja Kalas who implied that we shouldn't fear nuclear war. Because those aren't helpful at all. In fact the EU countries should be coordinating on military spending given that the military budget of the EU combined is superior to Russian military budget. Instead the EU looks like it's still waiting for the US to save us. But once Trump is elected we have no time left. He could (just as an example) insist on leaving the Ramstein airbase. Last time he did that all military thought 'what an complete idiot salting the earth for next president, we do just some illusion of people shuffling for the last weeks of his presidency, he won't notice anyway as he is a moron's moron'. But this time he could start his presidency doing it. At the moment there are a series of bilateral cooperation treaties initiated between EU members. But the EU is preparing, too. Tightening that bondage with quality seems to me more important than ever. We have to produce military quantity for the defense of Ukraine and pushing for military quality for the defense of us all. The ladder is not so much about ramping up financing it's more about deepening cooperation. |
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 19, 2024 13:59:00 GMT
The US being out of the game is at this moment an hypothetical, even if Trump wins the presidency. He said he do a bunch of things that he ended up not doing. And yes, I'm expecting that member states of NATO to fullfill their obligations. Even assuming that NATO is over, these countries are still in the EU and naturally the EU would support them I think. But hey, if they are concerned they should be increasing their military budget to absurd levels and refraining from making dumbass comments like Edgars Rinkēvičs who said "Russia delenda est!" or Kaja Kalas who implied that we shouldn't fear nuclear war. Because those aren't helpful at all. In fact the EU countries should be coordinating on military spending given that the military budget of the EU combined is superior to Russian military budget. Instead the EU looks like it's still waiting for the US to save us. He could (just as an example) insist on leaving the Ramstein airbase. Last time he did that all military thought 'what an complete idiot salting the earth for next president, we do just some illusion of people shuffling for the last weeks of his presidency, he won't notice anyway as he is a moron's moron'. But this time he could start his presidency doing it. At the moment there are a series of bilateral cooperation treaties initiated between EU members. But the EU is preparing, too. Tightening that bondage with quality seems to me more important than ever. We have to produce military quantity for the defense of Ukraine and pushing for military quality for the defense of us all. The ladder is not so much about ramping up financing it's more about deepening cooperation. Why is this an emergency now? Trump was elected in 2016. Nothing was done. And Trump has announced that he's running for President again, years ago. Jeez at this point I'm wondering it wouldn't be for the best for the US to leave NATO. Maybe then the EU gets their act together instead of waiting for the US to rescue us again. Quite frankly, people made a big deal about ending our dependency on Russia but we should consider cutting our dependency on the US and this isn't even about Trump. If China makes a move on Taiwan, the US will be more focused on Asia than Europe because unlike WW2, now Asia is far more important than old Europe. It will be Asia first, not Europe first. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 19, 2024 21:23:03 GMT
... Trump was elected in 2016. Nothing was done. Not enough for sure. But "nothing was done" also isn't correct. I once tried to make this a topic on imdb2 (You had also committed to that thread) Quo vadis, EU?imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/284064/quo-vadis-euYou have a point here, even if Biden wins, there are now disruptions going on in the USA that are frightening. Yes . The UK thought Brexit would urge the country to focus towards Asia, being both the market of economic growth and of military growth. But an island is not an aircraft carrier, it has people with needs living on it. I tried to make it a topic here: Quo vadis, Britannia?imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/260031/quo-vadis-britanniamight be interesting to have a look at the material from 3 years ago. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 20, 2024 15:23:37 GMT
ChrisO_Wiki on Putins intentions and how Trump plays into his game. Easier full read here Viktor Orbán has disclosed what he says is Donald Trump's plan... threadreaderapp.com/thread/1770016358392029382.html So one of the experts is basically confirming what I said. (*) I have to mourn some previous decisions by the Bundeswehr, too |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 20, 2024 17:00:59 GMT
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