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Post by tickingmask on May 6, 2024 9:58:44 GMT
I would have posted the same if a far-right wing German essayist was trying to convince Germans that all the wealth the Poles gathered was basically stolen from rich Germany nearby. Nobody is claiming that Poles stole any wealth from the British. Stop being ridiculous and adding paranoia to your long list of other faults.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 6, 2024 10:09:03 GMT
I would have posted the same if a far-right wing German essayist was trying to convince Germans that all the wealth the Poles gathered was basically stolen from rich Germany nearby. Nobody is claiming that Poles stole any wealth from the British. Stop being ridiculous and adding paranoia to your long list of other faults. In Germany there had been quite a lot of complaints about stealing Poles. But back to the UK. Here's not exactly about 'stole' but the word 'welfare' got a bad taste in the UK lately And while boasting about the skills and expertise the Poles acquired in the UK and brought back home the opinion piece is quiet about the skills Polish people brought to the UK in craftsmanship...
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Post by tickingmask on May 6, 2024 11:36:05 GMT
In Germany there had been quite a lot of complaints about stealing Poles. But back to the UK. Here's not exactly about 'stole' but the word 'welfare' got a bad taste in the UK lately And while boasting about the skills and expertise the Poles acquired in the UK and brought back home the opinion piece is quiet about the skills Polish people brought to the UK in craftsmanship... You leave these insinuations open like they is something meaningful (or 'right wing') about them, but you never follow through, do you? It is a well known fact that Poles working in the UK were entitled to generous child benefit payments - funded by the UK taxpayer, not by their employers - for their families living in Poland, and that this money was subsidising these families to a much larger extent since it went a lot further in Poland than in the UK. If I recall, the tabloid press made quite a fuss about this at one time ("UK child benefits are tailored towards UK living costs and should go towards families living in the UK, not in Poland... etc.") but rules were rules, and we ended up paying waaaay more in benefits to families living outside the UK than we ever got from elsewhere for families living in the UK. Aaaah, all those extra hidden costs of EU membership! Are you trying to pretend that this didn't happen, or are you simply alleging that it is somehow 'right wing' to mention it?
And the reason "the skills Polish people brought to the UK" isn't mentioned is because the article was talking about the benefits Poland got from being in the EU - Donald Tusk's main point - and not the benefits the UK got from Poland being in the EU. In fact, by far the biggest 'benefit' we got from Poles coming to work here was a large and bountiful supply of cheap labour which turned out to be a double-edged sword, since it contributed to a large extent towards turning the UK into a low wage economy, damaged productivity, created a high degree of worklessness among the UK's own population and (I would argue) sowed the seeds of the benefit and entitlement culture that we are now suffering from, along with the ongoing crack cocaine dependancy on cheap imported labour. Indeed, I'm sure that is also the reason why 'right wing' countries like France and Germany didn't allow Polish workers anywhere near their countries until several years after the country had joined. It was only idiotic Tony Blair who wanted to be seen to be a good European - no doubt he already has his eyes firmly fixed on one of its presidencies - and completely ignored the danger of enabling nearly a million Poles to up sticks and come and work in the UK straight away.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 6, 2024 13:46:39 GMT
(...) It is a well known fact that Poles working in the UK were entitled to generous child benefit payments - funded by the UK taxpayer, not by their employers - for their families living in Poland, and that this money was subsidising these families to a much larger extent since it went a lot further in Poland than in the UK. If I recall, the tabloid press made quite a fuss about this at one time ( "UK child benefits are tailored towards UK living costs and should go towards families living in the UK, not in Poland... etc.") but rules were rules, and we ended up paying waaaay more in benefits to families living outside the UK than we ever got from elsewhere for families living in the UK. Aaaah, all those extra hidden costs of EU membership! Are you trying to pretend that this didn't happen, or are you simply alleging that it is somehow 'right wing' to mention it? I do not question these facts. But there are several possibilities how to present them and who 'deserves' money. The Polish families living without their father (who perhaps worked in the UK) had to go through hardships in family life. And perhaps even worse off were Polish families living without their mother (who perhaps worked in Germany). This Polish movie here had that topic If only the idea that it might be good if employers had more obligations towards their workers would get more followers... You can cheer now - for every cheap Polish worker You got now two even cheaper workers coming from a less European background (Nigerians/Vietnamese/Indians/...) As I've said already - a step-by-step approach would have been better, especially regarding the acceptance of the public. And it was possible as the examples You mentioned did prove. By the way: it's often forgotten that the EU offered a lot of opportunities for upskilling Britons who did work there for a while as well. If many did decide not to come back - who's to blame?
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Post by tickingmask on May 6, 2024 14:22:33 GMT
You can cheer now - for every cheap Polish worker You got now two even cheaper workers coming from a less European background (Nigerians/Vietnamese/Indians/...) You can fuck off now, nobbi, you toxic little shit. I'm not cheering, unless you think my comment about "crack cocaine dependancy on cheap imported labour" was trying to imply that I thought this was a good thing.
The rest of your post also has nothing to do with the Jeremy Warner article you originally tried to engage me about, just reverting as usual to your boring anti-UK rant so I'm not going to bother with a response to anything else.
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Post by Lux on May 6, 2024 14:32:14 GMT
Donald Tusk talking like Donald Trump.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 6, 2024 14:32:39 GMT
tickingmaskThat Telegraph opinion piece is also tiptoeing around the fact that it had been The UK that had been the driving force behind the EU expansion towards the East! and there are academics who even believe that it wasn't only about getting new cheap labor or bringing democracy to the regions of former Russian influence. The United Kingdom and EU Enlargement in the Western Balkans: From Ardent Champion of Expansion to Post-Brexit Irrelevance eprints.lse.ac.uk/85629/1/Ker-Lindsay_United%20Kingdom%20and%20EU_2018.pdfJames Ker-Lindsay, School of Arts and Humanities, St Mary’s University, Twickenham, London, UK; European Institute, London School of Economics and Political Science, London, UK (...) "Thx" , UK!
It's You tickingmask who brings the toxicity into this thread. You handle me worse than You would handle any MAGAist.
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Post by tickingmask on May 6, 2024 14:46:30 GMT
Fuck off already, nobbi, go troll somebody else and take your mantle of victimhood to somebody who cares.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 6, 2024 14:58:45 GMT
tickingmaskI'm under the impression that You chose me to be your personal punching ball with a big photo of Donald Tusk on it bc You cannot scream at him personally bc he triggered you snowflake with his remarks that surely hurt the feelings of some Britons including You. Who is trolling whom? Those who quote Telegraph opinion pieces or those who quote academic papers?
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Post by tickingmask on May 6, 2024 15:12:26 GMT
tickingmask I'm under the impression that You chose me to be your personal punching ball with a big photo of Donald Tusk on it bc You cannot scream at him personally No, while I am not a huge fan of Donald Tusk's willy-waving, I "chose you to be my personal punching ball" because of your toxic and shitty little comment about how I can cheer now because I got now two even cheaper workers coming from a less European background (Nigerians/Vietnamese/Indians/...) . Straight after I said this was *not* a good outcome.
If you can't keep our conversations civil, then don't expect me to do so either. Now, didn't I tell you to fuck off already?
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 6, 2024 15:33:01 GMT
tickingmask I'm under the impression that You chose me to be your personal punching ball with a big photo of Donald Tusk on it bc You cannot scream at him personally No, while I am not a huge fan of Donald Tusk's willy-waving, I "chose you to be my personal punching ball" because of your toxic and shitty little comment about how I can cheer now because I got now two even cheaper workers coming from a less European background (Nigerians/Vietnamese/Indians/...) . Straight after I said this was *not* a good outcome.
If you can't keep our conversations civil, then don't expect me to do so either. Now, didn't I tell you to fuck off already?
The deliberate rise in legal migration and deflecting from that fact by focusing on illegal migration with performative cruelty was the decision of your government. I hope for the "Seelenfrieden" of your country once Labour is in government. But there has to be a re-civilization of your media first. The last things I heard about Murdoch is that his leverage and influence on British politicians was and is far more reaching than many know.
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