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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 1:58:11 GMT
Oliver Cromwell died on this day. Now you might think he was a twat (especially if you're Irish) but Cromwell (and the civil war) was the thing that set in motion the beginnings of constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy (not to mention renewed interest in the Magna Carta). Soon after, we had the Glorious Revolution in 1688, which in turn lead to the Bill of Rights (which Yanks think they invented) and freedom of speech etc. He's also the reason why the phrase 'warts and all' exists. He wanted to be painted without any romantic affectations. See, this is why we need a history board. So I can educate you people.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 3, 2019 9:07:23 GMT
Nope, he died in 1658. Nope, that was Magna Carta itself - a charter of liberties and rights. By the way, it isn't 'the Magna Carta', it is just 'Magna Carta'. (No articles in Latin.) Good effort otherwise though, keep it coming.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 12:14:43 GMT
Nope, he died in 1658. Nope, that was Magna Carta itself - a charter of liberties and rights. By the way, it isn't 'the Magna Carta', it is just 'Magna Carta'. (No articles in Latin.) Good effort otherwise though, keep it coming. Yeah, Magna Carta (13th century) brought about parliamentary democracy (17th century). Good grief. Were you educated by gibbons?
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 3, 2019 12:33:51 GMT
Nope, he died in 1658. Nope, that was Magna Carta itself - a charter of liberties and rights. By the way, it isn't 'the Magna Carta', it is just 'Magna Carta'. (No articles in Latin.) Good effort otherwise though, keep it coming. Yeah, Magna Carta (13th century) brought about parliamentary democracy (17th century). Good grief. Were you educated by gibbons? It was the thing that started the process of bringing parliamentary democracy and the Bill of Rights about, though, as it is a bill of rights. To claim those started at Cromwell's time is woefully ignorant of what Magna Carta is. Were you educated at Gregg's?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 12:48:40 GMT
Yeah, Magna Carta (13th century) brought about parliamentary democracy (17th century). Good grief. Were you educated by gibbons? It was the thing that started the process of bringing parliamentary democracy and the Bill of Rights about, though, as it is a bill of rights. To claim those started at Cromwell's time is woefully ignorant of what Magna Carta is. Were you educated at Gregg's? LOL, you didn't even know we had a bill of rights until I told you. The Magna Carta was about baron's rights. It was wrongly used by parliamentarians in the 17th century as a manual for general parliamentary rights. It was the actions of the civil war and what followed that brought about actual parliamentary democracy. The Glorious devolution being the major factor in recognising parliamentary authority (inspired, as they were, by Cromwell et al).
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 3, 2019 15:27:54 GMT
Says the person who clearly doesn't understand what Magna Carta meant. You don't see the link to parliamentary democracy. LOL.
You're welcome to your version of history, but please don't label your poor analysis as 'education'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 15:41:48 GMT
Says the person who clearly doesn't understand what Magna Carta meant. You don't see the link to parliamentary democracy. LOL. You're welcome to your version of history, but please don't label your poor analysis as 'education'. Wow, that's one of the worst attempts to cover for your embarrassment I've seen yet. Of course there's a link. But there's a link from the bible to Magna Carta. So what? The real influences came in the 17th century. Cromwell included.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 3, 2019 16:02:36 GMT
Says the person who clearly doesn't understand what Magna Carta meant. You don't see the link to parliamentary democracy. LOL. You're welcome to your version of history, but please don't label your poor analysis as 'education'. Wow, that's one of the worst attempts to cover for your embarrassment I've seen yet. Of course there's a link. But there's a link from the bible to Magna Carta. So what? The real influences came in the 17th century. Cromwell included. Oh right. Removing absolute monarchy and starting what was by any other name a house of lords was NOT the first step to parliamentary democracy and producing a document called The Great Charter of Liberties was NOT the first step to the Bill of Rights. Again, your understanding of Magna Carta is very poor. And my point previously was that we do not have a single document. We keep adding via separate documents, which is entirely correct.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:08:25 GMT
Wow, that's one of the worst attempts to cover for your embarrassment I've seen yet. Of course there's a link. But there's a link from the bible to Magna Carta. So what? The real influences came in the 17th century. Cromwell included. Oh right. Removing absolute monarchy and starting what was by any other name a house of lords was NOT the first step to parliamentary democracy and producing a document called The Great Charter of Liberties was NOT the first step to the Bill of Rights. Again, your understanding of Magna Carta is very poor. And my point previously was that we do not have a single document. We keep adding via separate documents, which is entirely correct. Your understanding of the word 'link' is very poor. Your understanding of the significance of Magna Carta is even worse. I can only do so much to ecu ate you.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 3, 2019 17:26:33 GMT
Your understanding of the significance of Magna Carta is even worse. Wrong, it was clearly the first step to the formation of a parliament.... .... and therefore parliamentary democracy and clearly the first step to the Bill of Rights - it's name (Great Charter of Liberties) is almost exactly that. You probably didn't realise that before I told you. You probably thought Magna Carta was an ice-cream before I told you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 17:45:39 GMT
Your understanding of the significance of Magna Carta is even worse. Wrong, it was clearly the first step to the formation of a parliament.... .... and therefore parliamentary democracy and clearly the first step to the Bill of Rights - it's name (Great Charter of Liberties) is almost exactly that. You probably didn't realise that before I told you. You probably thought Magna Carta was an ice-cream before I told you. Yes, a parliament that accepted the power of the king. It took another 450 years for actual power to be taken by parliament. And even then, it still wasn't culturally accepted (hence the bloodless revolution of 1688). How do you not know this stuff. Magna Carta is essentially a bureaucratic document of little importance. It is tangentially viewed as a more important document precisely because the parliamentarians of the 1640s deliberately romanticised it. They are the reason it became a book of such (overblown) significance.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 18:30:41 GMT
From my POV you're both right. Magna Carta established the roles of Parliament and the Monarchy, but by the time of King Charles, the Monarchy had been overstepping their powers. Cromwell set England back on course and helped re-establish the balance.
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