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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 2:40:27 GMT
This problem is solved when you scrap the Trinity ... The trinity is a 3rd century explanation of why Christianity isn't polytheist, different subject than which god the Hebrews were worshipping. Oy vey.
You asked if Hebrews and Jews worship the wrong god.
I just told you. Jews worship God the Father only. God the Son is a different god. The New Testament is very clear on that.
Christians believe Jews cannot be saved unless they acknowledge Christ.
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Post by clusium on Apr 16, 2023 3:46:57 GMT
This problem is solved when you scrap the Trinity invented in Rome, and which is found nowhere in the Bible.
God the Father is the angry god of the Old Testament Hebrews. His Son is the loving reformer, who of course exists within the parameters of his Father's creation. But the Son and the Father are two different distinct entities with conflicting views of the universe.
St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19: "Therefore, go out into the world & preach to all nations and Baptized people in the Name Of the Father, and Of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit."
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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 4:59:19 GMT
This problem is solved when you scrap the Trinity invented in Rome, and which is found nowhere in the Bible.
God the Father is the angry god of the Old Testament Hebrews. His Son is the loving reformer, who of course exists within the parameters of his Father's creation. But the Son and the Father are two different distinct entities with conflicting views of the universe.
St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19: "Therefore, go out into the world & preach to all nations and Baptized people in the Name Of the Father, and Of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit." Yes Clusium (great to see you again by the way!), but those are three distinct Gods.
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Post by clusium on Apr 16, 2023 5:21:41 GMT
St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19: "Therefore, go out into the world & preach to all nations and Baptized people in the Name Of the Father, and Of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit." Yes Clusium (great to see you again by the way!), but those are three distinct Gods. No, 3 Divine Persons IN the One Godhead. Thank you, great to see you too.
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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 5:55:46 GMT
Yes Clusium (great to see you again by the way!), but those are three distinct Gods. No, 3 Divine Persons IN the One Godhead. Thank you, great to see you too. I was raised Greek Orthodox. I know that's what both Orthodox and Catholics teach.
But where in the New Testament does it say they are one entity?
Being one in purpose does not mean they are the same existential being.
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Post by clusium on Apr 16, 2023 6:08:44 GMT
No, 3 Divine Persons IN the One Godhead. Thank you, great to see you too. I was raised Greek Orthodox. I know that's what both Orthodox and Catholics teach.
But where in the New Testament does it say they are one entity?
Being one in purpose does not mean they are the same existential being.
Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, verse 30.
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Post by clusium on Apr 16, 2023 6:10:08 GMT
Jesus’ message was all the 600+ laws the priests, rabbis, and scribes said must be followed in order to be a righteous Jew were empty if they are only being followed out of pious routine and prideful show. He even pushed the Commandments further by demanding his followers put Love or Agape ahead of the Law. I'm more or less an atheist. But I love religion and theology.
The concept of the Trinity is nowhere in the Bible. Sorry, a Father cannot be his own Son. They are separate and distinct entities. I don't care how one contorts it. The whole idea is somewhat pornographic.
It's very clear that Christian theology teaches the Father was the stern god of the Hebrews and the Jews. And the Son expanded the covenant to the Gentiles. No, Christ was not the God of the Old Testament.
Christianity is a polytheistic religion of three Gods. Then you have the Devil running around too fucking things up. Practically all religions have an evil entity or entities, that opposes God or gods.
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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 6:31:53 GMT
I was raised Greek Orthodox. I know that's what both Orthodox and Catholics teach.
But where in the New Testament does it say they are one entity?
Being one in purpose does not mean they are the same existential being.
Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, verse 30. It says "I and the Father are one." One in purpose. It's like if I say "I and my wife are one". You're parsing words.
Christ prays to God the Father. Why would he pray to himself? The Trinity makes no sense and was a contortion created later, not in the New Testament.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 16, 2023 6:34:09 GMT
Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, verse 30. It says "I and the Father are one." One in purpose. It's like if I say "I and my wife are one". You're parsing words.
Christ prays to God the Father. Why would he pray to himself? The Trinity makes no sense and was a contortion created later, not in the New Testament.
It makes no sense to you.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 16, 2023 6:38:55 GMT
Jesus’ message was all the 600+ laws the priests, rabbis, and scribes said must be followed in order to be a righteous Jew were empty if they are only being followed out of pious routine and prideful show. He even pushed the Commandments further by demanding his followers put Love or Agape ahead of the Law. I'm more or less an atheist. But I love religion and theology.
The concept of the Trinity is nowhere in the Bible. Sorry, a Father cannot be his own Son. They are separate and distinct entities. I don't care how one contorts it. The whole idea is somewhat pornographic.
It's very clear that Christian theology teaches the Father was the stern god of the Hebrews and the Jews. And the Son expanded the covenant to the Gentiles. No, Christ was not the God of the Old Testament.
Christianity is a polytheistic religion of three Gods. Then you have the Devil running around too fucking things up. Jesus doesn’t actually extend the “covenant” to the gentiles. Neither does Paul and he is the founder of a new religion, that is no longer Jewish in character. Jesus was preaching how to be a truly righteous person at the end of the world as this was a popular theme in some Jewish sects for several decades before Jesus…like the Essenes.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 16, 2023 6:44:14 GMT
I'm more or less an atheist. But I love religion and theology.
The concept of the Trinity is nowhere in the Bible. Sorry, a Father cannot be his own Son. They are separate and distinct entities. I don't care how one contorts it. The whole idea is somewhat pornographic.
It's very clear that Christian theology teaches the Father was the stern god of the Hebrews and the Jews. And the Son expanded the covenant to the Gentiles. No, Christ was not the God of the Old Testament.
Christianity is a polytheistic religion of three Gods. Then you have the Devil running around too fucking things up. Practically all religions have an evil entity or entities, that opposes God or gods. Order always opposes chaos, yet creation only comes out of chaos.
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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 7:55:17 GMT
It says "I and the Father are one." One in purpose. It's like if I say "I and my wife are one". You're parsing words.
Christ prays to God the Father. Why would he pray to himself? The Trinity makes no sense and was a contortion created later, not in the New Testament.
It makes no sense to you. It makes no sense. Period.
If the Trinity , three in one personage, was espoused in the New Testament, I would accept it as canon. But it's nowhere in the Bible.
If it makes sense to you, can you explain how a Father can be his own Son?
And can you explain why Christ prayed to himself?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 16, 2023 15:22:09 GMT
It makes no sense to you. It makes no sense. Period.
If the Trinity , three in one personage, was espoused in the New Testament, I would accept it as canon. But it's nowhere in the Bible.
If it makes sense to you, can you explain how a Father can be his own Son?
And can you explain why Christ prayed to himself? It makes no sense. To you. Period. No I can't explain why Christ prayed to himself. On occasion I've talked to myself, and I can't explain that one either.
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Post by Prince Myshkin on Apr 16, 2023 15:34:01 GMT
It makes no sense. Period.
If the Trinity , three in one personage, was espoused in the New Testament, I would accept it as canon. But it's nowhere in the Bible.
If it makes sense to you, can you explain how a Father can be his own Son?
And can you explain why Christ prayed to himself? It makes no sense. To you. Period. No I can't explain why Christ prayed to himself. On occasion I've talked to myself, and I can't explain that one either. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best. The Trinity is a dumb concept. And it's found nowhere in the Bible. You've been duped by Rome.
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Post by clusium on Apr 16, 2023 15:46:38 GMT
Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, verse 30. It says "I and the Father are one." One in purpose. It's like if I say "I and my wife are one". You're parsing words.
Christ prays to God the Father. Why would he pray to himself? The Trinity makes no sense and was a contortion created later, not in the New Testament.
Christ - The Second Person Of the Trinity - Prays to the Father, the First Person Of the Trinity. Here's another place, that is slightly more affirming: Gospel according to St. John chapter 14, verses 8 - 9. Here, Christ SPECIFICALLY Identifies Himself with the Father. St. Philip asks Our Lord to show them (Philip & the other Apostles)the Father, & Our Lord Jesus Tells him that He Is the Father. In the Gospel according to St. John chapter 8, Christ Says "I Am," & the Pharisees try to stone Him to Death. Why? Because in Saying "I Am," Christ was Saying that He Is God.
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