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Post by Harold of Whoa on Mar 23, 2018 21:40:54 GMT
Isolationists? Do you have a safe space?
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Post by scienceisgod on Mar 23, 2018 21:45:20 GMT
Bolton isn’t even Jewish.
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MightyMikey
Nick Nack
Thanks for the response! Fuck you too.
Posts: 185
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Post by MightyMikey on Mar 23, 2018 22:55:46 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and defend old John for a minute. I wouldn't call him a neocon, like I've been reading all day. A neocon is a former democrat who became conservative over foreign policy disputes. It's a throw back to the 60's.
Bolton is guilty of loyalty to a fault. I do think it is with a good reason. He remained loyal to the white house he served, and everyone knows the new boss watches how you talk about the old boss. Nobody wants to hire a squirming ship jumper. That's the kind of loyalty that McMaster didn't show even while he was serving.
...my two cents.
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Post by Harold of Whoa on Mar 24, 2018 0:46:44 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and defend old John for a minute. I wouldn't call him a neocon, like I've been reading all day. A neocon is a former democrat who became conservative over foreign policy disputes. It's a throw back to the 60's. Bolton is guilty of loyalty to a fault. I do think it is with a good reason. He remained loyal to the white house he served, and everyone knows the new boss watches how you talk about the old boss. Nobody wants to hire a squirming ship jumper. That's the kind of loyalty that McMaster didn't show even while he was serving. ...my two cents. Oh, I like Bolton a lot. My hope with this thread (probably a vain hope) is to vex a few specific "I wish we would leave everybody alone" isolationist types who think Trump is a champion of their hands-off-the-world approach. In point of fact, Trump is a champion of nothing except Trump, and he has spent so little of his life thinking about foreign policy or national defense that people who come in contact with him find he is relatively easy to redirect. That is hysterical to me, especially when dealing with the crowd who honestly think we should disband NATO, cut off Israel, withdraw from all parts of the world, etc. and are rabidly convinced that Trump is just the man who is going to do that, then just shrug and blame the "Deep State" when we have boots on the ground in every other *shithole* on the planet. As far as the definition of neocon, you may be right about the origin of the word, but I have been conservative, hawkish, and generally Republican-leaning for as long as I have been engaged in these matters, and people on the boards call me that name when national security discussions get going...and if you do a brief search of the internet, you will see that the neocon label is closely associated with Bolton's name.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 24, 2018 2:01:26 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and defend old John for a minute. I wouldn't call him a neocon, like I've been reading all day. A neocon is a former democrat who became conservative over foreign policy disputes. It's a throw back to the 60's. Bolton is guilty of loyalty to a fault. I do think it is with a good reason. He remained loyal to the white house he served, and everyone knows the new boss watches how you talk about the old boss. Nobody wants to hire a squirming ship jumper. That's the kind of loyalty that McMaster didn't show even while he was serving. ...my two cents. Oh, I like Bolton a lot. My hope with this thread (probably a vain hope) is to vex a few specific "I wish we would leave everybody alone" isolationist types who think Trump is a champion of their hands-off-the-world approach. In point of fact, Trump is a champion of nothing except Trump, and he has spent so little of his life thinking about foreign policy or national defense that people who come in contact with him find he is relatively easy to redirect. That is hysterical to me, especially when dealing with the crowd who honestly think we should disband NATO, cut off Israel, withdraw from all parts of the world, etc. and are rabidly convinced that Trump is just the man who is going to do that, then just shrug and blame the "Deep State" when we have boots on the ground in every other *shithole* on the planet. So you want us to turn on Trump? I've never thought Trump was a nationalist savior, just the best of all realistic prospects. And although I'm not happy about Bolton at all, (the guy is chickenhawk, giddy to send other guys to fight for no real gain for the US like the enormous waste that Iraq and Afghanistan became), Trump remains the best prospect. For all I know Bolton might turn out like McMaster, here today and gone within a year. And neocons and Rambos will say "He fired Bolton 'cause Putin!" I just pray this guys influence doesn't stick and Trump foolishly gets us into yet another small war, or worse, a big one.
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Post by Harold of Whoa on Mar 24, 2018 3:21:13 GMT
So you want us to turn on Trump? I've never thought Trump was a nationalist savior, just the best of all realistic prospects. And although I'm not happy about Bolton at all, (the guy is chickenhawk, giddy to send other guys to fight for no real gain for the US like the enormous waste that Iraq and Afghanistan became), Trump remains the best prospect. For all I know Bolton might turn out like McMaster, here today and gone within a year. And neocons and Rambos will say "He fired Bolton 'cause Putin!" I just pray this guys influence doesn't stick and Trump foolishly gets us into yet another small war, or worse, a big one. Call it schadenfreude, I suppose. I still harbor resentment over the way the 2016 GOP primaries went down, and whenever all the supposed difference in actual policy between the great Trump and the grownups who ran are laid bare as being hot air and nonsense, I feel vindicated pointing it out. But no, I don't want you to abandon him - you're stuck with his ass just like I am right now, and if he gets walluped in the mid-terms it will be a calamity for the Free World. The one who's going to get us into "a big one" is whoever draws the red line closest to the real important shit, 'cause sooner or later somebody will go there - they will inevitably go to the point of real consequences, and if that doesn't happen until paratroopers are landing in Vancouver, then that's what you are setting yourself (or your kids) up for. Whatever the interest that the US is not willing to yield to marauders may be, mathematical certainty points to that happening eventually.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 24, 2018 14:41:43 GMT
So you want us to turn on Trump? I've never thought Trump was a nationalist savior, just the best of all realistic prospects. And although I'm not happy about Bolton at all, (the guy is chickenhawk, giddy to send other guys to fight for no real gain for the US like the enormous waste that Iraq and Afghanistan became), Trump remains the best prospect. For all I know Bolton might turn out like McMaster, here today and gone within a year. And neocons and Rambos will say "He fired Bolton 'cause Putin!" I just pray this guys influence doesn't stick and Trump foolishly gets us into yet another small war, or worse, a big one. Call it schadenfreude, I suppose. I still harbor resentment over the way the 2016 GOP primaries went down, and whenever all the supposed difference in actual policy between the great Trump and the grownups who ran are laid bare as being hot air and nonsense, I feel vindicated pointing it out. The *supposed* differences may well be hot air and nonsense, but at least we tried. Id rather cast my vote someone who offers a chance at changing US foreign policy than someone who straight-up tells me he will continue what we've been doing. Oh come one, you know you'd love to see Trump take a mid-term beating. You'd get to point at guys like me and say "See, you should have let old guard, establishment, "grownups" continue to run the party. Wolverines!!! Look, I'm not a Peacenik, I'm not against using force when necessary, but the war in Afghanistan was a debacle from the start, rather than being about bringing to justice the terrorists who cause 9/11 it turned into a never ending campaign of "nation building", Iraq was a complete waste of money and lives, Syria is of no concern to us at all, regime change in Libya has harmed western interests in ways Russia could only dream of, Yemen... I don't even know wtf is going there. We don't need all this. Its a waste. The real danger is our changing demographics and huge trade deficits with China et al. The Russian and Yememian armies are paratrooping into Vancouver. That's completely ridiculous. Don't you see this entire narrative is designed to fracture Trumps base? Its manufactured to appeal to older, Cold War era and younger WOT era white men to break with the rest of Trump's support so the real dangers mentioned above can roll along unabated.
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Post by Harold of Whoa on Mar 25, 2018 3:18:06 GMT
Oh come one, you know you'd love to see Trump take a mid-term beating. You'd get to point at guys like me and say "See, you should have let old guard, establishment, "grownups" continue to run the party. See, this is just the opposite of the truth. No amount of finger-pointing satisfaction would make up for the misery of Speaker Dementia Pelosi and Majority Leader Ratbitch Schumer and the subsequent impeachment debacle. We may not be able to survive that shit. You wienie pinchers are actually the ones who take your toys and go home if everything doesn't exactly suit you - that's why Obama got a second term, because Republican turnout was several million lower in 2012 than in 2008 because SOB BOO HOO WAAAAH Mitt Romney's not conservative enough or whatever enough and I hate Obamacare and besides he's a Mormon and what's the difference between the two parties SOB SOB WAAAAHH [nutless monkey stays at home and doesn't vote, Obama gets a second term]. I've never, ever thought there was even a chance I would get everything I want in a presidential candidate, or a congressman or senator, I just keep muddling along with reality and trying push back against the march toward Euro-socialism. It took me about five minutes to get that one, but once I did...what can I say? That's awesome!! I can't stay mad at you with references that good. I love you, man! You forgot Niger, don't leave out Niger. But, yeah, I like how we're tryin' somethin' different and all. Looking forward to seeing how it works. In all seriousness, though, you know what the worst problem with all theses entanglements and adventures is? Not being able to articulate a reason for doing them. Even Obama had a narrative, albeit a stupid one, for Libya and Syria (well, Syria not so much once he started alternately bitching about and trying to work with Putin.) Trump not only makes no effort to articulate a reason, he continues to pretend he doesn't do stuff like this. We are much better off with someone in there making a case in the open for US national interests being advanced than just fumbling along completely off the public radar in perpetual mission drift under bureaucratic oversight. Oh, I'm pretty sure Vancouver is safe from Yemen.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 11:30:23 GMT
John Bolton as well as being a war monger and paid Israeli shill,is also a gutless coward. Watch him getting destroyed by the late UK MP Tony Benn. So the Vietnam draft dodging coward wants to talk tough to a world war 2 soldier who's brother was killed fighting the Nazi's. Piece of shit.
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Post by iamnotarobot on Mar 25, 2018 12:56:21 GMT
When NK has a full arsenal of H bombs and starts making insane demands everyone will be demanding to know why nothing was done when we had the opportunity. I guarantee it.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 25, 2018 14:16:31 GMT
Oh come one, you know you'd love to see Trump take a mid-term beating. You'd get to point at guys like me and say "See, you should have let old guard, establishment, "grownups" continue to run the party. See, this is just the opposite of the truth. No amount of finger-pointing satisfaction would make up for the misery of Speaker Dementia Pelosi and Majority Leader Ratbitch Schumer and the subsequent impeachment debacle. We may not be able to survive that shit. You wienie pinchers are actually the ones who take your toys and go home if everything doesn't exactly suit you - that's why Obama got a second term, because Republican turnout was several million lower in 2012 than in 2008 because SOB BOO HOO WAAAAH Mitt Romney's not conservative enough or whatever enough and I hate Obamacare and besides he's a Mormon and what's the difference between the two parties SOB SOB WAAAAHH [nutless monkey stays at home and doesn't vote, Obama gets a second term]. I've never, ever thought there was even a chance I would get everything I want in a presidential candidate, or a congressman or senator, I just keep muddling along with reality and trying push back against the march toward Euro-socialism. There was a bit of a "I'll take my toys and go home" in 2012 with Romney, but conservatives voters came to that conclusion all by themselves. They didn't have Bill Kristol, David French, Glenn Beck and Egghead McMuffin actively trying to organize a sabotage of the GOP candidate. Trump got what Romney got and overcame it by appealing directly to the people, he spoke to the unemployed workers in rustbelt states and won because he carried those states, rather than telling working families to F off the way est. GOP usually does. Well, thanks, I love you too in a totally non-gay way. I've never been mad at you though. We're not trying anything different so far, Trump just offered hope that we would. Maybe he is taking a page from Obama's book and purposely NOT articulating our involvements overseas? Bush made a big deal out of it all while Obama didn't, and the world barely seemed to notice Obama was nearly as bad as Bush. Trumps looking at two different ways of dealing with it and doing whats worked. Fine, have all the little wars you want. Seriously, fighting with conservatives over this is not productive. What I want is big time immigration reform.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 25, 2018 14:20:30 GMT
When NK has a full arsenal of H bombs and starts making insane demands everyone will be demanding to know why nothing was done when we had the opportunity. I guarantee it. I suspect they cant be dealt with because of China. Too many US politicians are paid men who make tons of money doing business with China, so nothing ever happens. China has to be brought to heel first, but the people running the media wont talk about "Chinese interference" or "collusion with China" because China has real power and at least partially owns them.
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Post by Harold of Whoa on Mar 25, 2018 20:03:54 GMT
Well, thanks, I love you too in a totally non-gay way. Don't be too hasty putting limits on our relationship. Eventually it's just going to be you and me alone in a bunker - after we have yielded every remaining square inch of the planet to the Moslem and Slavic hordes because it's none of our business what they do. Sooner or later you're going to want to spoon.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 25, 2018 22:53:04 GMT
Well, thanks, I love you too in a totally non-gay way. Don't be too hasty putting limits on our relationship. Eventually it's just going to be you and me alone in a bunker - after we have yielded every remaining square inch of the planet to the Moslem and Slavic hordes because it's none of our business what they do. Sooner or later you're going to want to spoon. It's our business if they come here. We kick their asses out if they do that. What they do in Muslim and Slavic lands is their business.
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Post by slowcomingwarbird on Mar 25, 2018 23:26:22 GMT
Bolton isn’t even Jewish. Really? In what twisted little world does that even matter? Supposedly Trump is going to have John Bolton fire everyone at the NSA who was hired by Obama. And most likely go to war before this year is out, a very bad combination. www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/23/jon-bolton-very-afraid-editorials-debates/453362002/From start to finish something that the Mercers are causing, indeed for the sake of national security Robert Mercer and Rebekah Mercer must not be allowed to contact or speak with Donald Trump again.
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