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Post by yggdrasil on Aug 3, 2022 8:32:29 GMT
What exactly do you mean by "materialist atheism"? To me, a belief in a "God" is purely a binary question. Think that's how pretty much all Brits see it. It really isn't a thing here as it is in the US. Politicians can be atheist for example without it going against them at the polls. How many of these Brit atheist were formally baptized just as a family tradition? Or get married in a church and have their funeral in one? And of the Brits whom you call atheist, are they “spiritual” kind or hardcore determinists. Then what are the possibilities that a huge national or world event could trigger a popular return to the comforts of a religious faith? Actual atheism is a rational process like religion itself is supposed to be. I doubt most people put that thought into it especially the Brits, because unlike Americans, you’re not forced by ad hoc social pressure to think about it. Like I said above, Americans as a whole are far less religious than you think. But we have a very loud and powerful White Evangelical church that’s more about social control than religion. The fact that the UK has a State Church, however toothless it is now, has as much to do with the lack of religiosity as the citizens just deciding they don’t believe in God. Can only speak from personal knowledge, but apart from a few (and they aren't hardcore like in the US, they just like the community aspect) religion waned here with my grandparents generation, My parents generation would pay lip service and maybe go once a year at Xmas for the "carols" and then my generation pretty much gave up on it. We still had RE in school and said the Lords prayer in the morning that we knew by rote, but not one kid from my school that I knew ever attended Church or anything. The State Church is more the hangover from Henry dumping Rome to divorce Catherine. There is everywhere a return to more pagan type ideas although I wouldn't go so far as to call them "beliefs", But I would say the majority don't even view religion in the same way as the US. It's more of a logical process that stops the belief once kids stop being indoctrinated at an early age. The use of Church for Christenings has also dropped hugely, We didn't Christen my son and if it does happen, then like marriage it is often done as an excuse for a big piss up as much as anything else. The last 3 funerals I have been to have all had "Humanist" services although I couldn't tell you if that is widespread, I just honestly see very little religion inside my Country aside from Muslims and Catholics. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 3, 2022 9:02:20 GMT
How many of these Brit atheist were formally baptized just as a family tradition? Or get married in a church and have their funeral in one? And of the Brits whom you call atheist, are they “spiritual” kind or hardcore determinists. Then what are the possibilities that a huge national or world event could trigger a popular return to the comforts of a religious faith? Actual atheism is a rational process like religion itself is supposed to be. I doubt most people put that thought into it especially the Brits, because unlike Americans, you’re not forced by ad hoc social pressure to think about it. Like I said above, Americans as a whole are far less religious than you think. But we have a very loud and powerful White Evangelical church that’s more about social control than religion. The fact that the UK has a State Church, however toothless it is now, has as much to do with the lack of religiosity as the citizens just deciding they don’t believe in God. Can only speak from personal knowledge, but apart from a few (and they aren't hardcore like in the US, they just like the community aspect) religion waned here with my grandparents generation, My parents generation would pay lip service and maybe go once a year at Xmas for the "carols" and then my generation pretty much gave up on it. We still had RE in school and said the Lords prayer in the morning that we knew by rote, but not one kid from my school that I knew ever attended Church or anything. The State Church is more the hangover from Henry dumping Rome to divorce Catherine. There is everywhere a return to more pagan type ideas although I wouldn't go so far as to call them "beliefs", But I would say the majority don't even view religion in the same way as the US. It's more of a logical process that stops the belief once kids stop being indoctrinated at an early age. The use of Church for Christenings has also dropped hugely, We didn't Christen my son and if it does happen, then like marriage it is often done as an excuse for a big piss up as much as anything else. The last 3 funerals I have been to have all had "Humanist" services although I couldn't tell you if that is widespread, I just honestly see very little religion inside my Country aside from Muslims and Catholics. That pretty much describes the US “mainline” Protestants, like the Anglican-ish churches: Episcopalian, Methodist, etc, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Reformed, and the like. However the Evangelical is a specific American theology with its roots in Puritanism and other firebrand Anglo preaching. It and continental reform movements have fertile ground to grow in. And this these churches form the Bible Belt as formed without much guidance to become mainstream late 20th century. Then of course, there’s the Roman Catholic Church which has a lot of influence in some parts of America that came into the culture in the late 19th century. A third religious power is the Black Evangelical Church created at the same time but works socially in total opposition to the White one. So, yeah, this element you only have in bits and pieces most due to proselytizing which isn’t having much success that I can see. Even so, Protestant Northern Irish took on a religious/nationalist element in juxtaposition to the Irish Catholics. So, in what could be seen as typical of all British working class in 1960s into the 80s was a return, if superficial return to religion, during war. Therefore, do you think if Islam became more of a presence in British life, could a retreat to Christianity be a resistance by the indigenous British? |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Aug 9, 2022 9:02:20 GMT
Therefore, do you think if Islam became more of a presence in British life, could a retreat to Christianity be a resistance by the indigenous British? Let's hope not - the last thing we need is a return to crackpot religious wars. Certainly true that islam is becoming more present here - mosques, halal, sharia etc - stuff you could say "so what?" to, but the problem is that among some there is also a disrespect for western values such as democracy, free speech, sexuality etc. That needs to be reigned in. "Religious rights" must never encompass being a shit and there is a clear conflict between western liberal values and islam. Only one can dominate and that showdown is yet to come. |
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Post by Top Bloke on Aug 9, 2022 12:01:59 GMT
Therefore, do you think if Islam became more of a presence in British life, could a retreat to Christianity be a resistance by the indigenous British? Let's hope not - the last thing we need is a return to crackpot religious wars. Certainly true that islam is becoming more present here - mosques, halal, sharia etc - stuff you could say "so what?" to, but the problem is that among some there is also a disrespect for western values such as democracy, free speech, sexuality etc. That needs to be reigned in. "Religious rights" must never encompass being a shit and there is a clear conflict between western liberal values and islam. Only one can dominate and that showdown is yet to come. The West struggled for millennia to achieve secularism and an increase in Islam sends philosophical progress backwards. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 11, 2022 21:45:38 GMT
Let's hope not - the last thing we need is a return to crackpot religious wars. Certainly true that islam is becoming more present here - mosques, halal, sharia etc - stuff you could say "so what?" to, but the problem is that among some there is also a disrespect for western values such as democracy, free speech, sexuality etc. That needs to be reigned in. "Religious rights" must never encompass being a shit and there is a clear conflict between western liberal values and islam. Only one can dominate and that showdown is yet to come. The West struggled for millennia to achieve secularism and an increase in Islam sends philosophical progress backwards. Total bullshit driven by your irrational fear of the future. |
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Post by Top Bloke on Aug 12, 2022 0:02:49 GMT
The West struggled for millennia to achieve secularism and an increase in Islam sends philosophical progress backwards. driven by your irrational fear of the future. It isn’t. An increase in the Muslim population means an increase in religious adherence. I never said they’d take over you nincompoop. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 12, 2022 0:08:41 GMT
Total bullshit driven by your irrational fear of the future. It isn’t. An increase in the Muslim population means an increase in religious adherence. I never said they’d take over you nincompoop. It’s no more fuck than Christianity has been for 2,000 years. |
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Post by Top Bloke on Aug 12, 2022 0:12:13 GMT
It isn’t. An increase in the Muslim population means an increase in religious adherence. I never said they’d take over you nincompoop. It’s no more fuck than Christianity has been for 2,000 years. And Christianity is waning. Islam isn’t. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 12, 2022 0:25:22 GMT
It’s no more fuck than Christianity has been for 2,000 years. And Christianity is waning. Islam isn’t. It’s hardly waning in the Republican Party. And it’s the Satan is real and converts people into being Liberals kind too. We seen just how nasty these Islamic-style Christians can be with tiny bit of power…which is the reason for separation of church and state. Anyway, the level of shear hatred for humanity and planet runs about the same between the two groups of religious fanatics. |
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Post by Top Bloke on Aug 12, 2022 0:31:55 GMT
And Christianity is waning. Islam isn’t. It’s hardly waning in the Republican Party. And it’s the Satan is real and converts people into being Liberals kind too. We seen just how nasty these Islamic-style Christians can be with tiny bit of power…which is the reason for separation of church and state. Anyway, the level of shear hatred for humanity and planet runs about the same between the two groups of religious fanatics. First you said it was ‘total bullshit’ that Islam was detrimental to philosophical progress. When the folly of your words was exposed, you said ‘just like Christianity!’. If you would stop talking shit we could have a proper conversation. |
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Post by yggdrasil on Aug 12, 2022 8:30:39 GMT
Total bullshit driven by your irrational fear of the future. It isn’t. An increase in the Muslim population means an increase in religious adherence. I never said they’d take over you nincompoop. I would think the numbers and adherence are far less than Catholicism although I would prefer them both to be cast away as the supernatural rantings of imbeciles that they are. |
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Post by yggdrasil on Aug 12, 2022 8:36:06 GMT
And Christianity is waning. Islam isn’t. It’s hardly waning in the Republican Party. And it’s the Satan is real and converts people into being Liberals kind too. We seen just how nasty these Islamic-style Christians can be with tiny bit of power…which is the reason for separation of church and state. Anyway, the level of shear hatred for humanity and planet runs about the same between the two groups of religious fanatics. hate to say, but the level of religious extremism between Islam and Christianity may be on a par in the US, but you also have Islamic fundamentalism everywhere else whereas you don't get Christian style extremism really outside the US. Really depends if this is just about the US or on a wider scale. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 12, 2022 9:19:22 GMT
It’s hardly waning in the Republican Party. And it’s the Satan is real and converts people into being Liberals kind too. We seen just how nasty these Islamic-style Christians can be with tiny bit of power…which is the reason for separation of church and state. Anyway, the level of shear hatred for humanity and planet runs about the same between the two groups of religious fanatics. hate to say, but the level of religious extremism between Islam and Christianity may be on a par in the US, but you also have Islamic fundamentalism everywhere else whereas you don't get Christian style extremism really outside the US. Really depends if this is just about the US or on a wider scale. It’s brewing in Africa though. One issue beyond the actual religious belief, which is a jumble of non-Christian things among it, is the large number of big money charlatans. Evangelical-free form religion is, like everything else, a huge profit making industry in the USA among the black and white faiths. And converting Africa is a huge fund raiser, especially in the black churches which is less focused on Israel. Of course, we can blame American Evangelicalism’s roots on its direct ancestors: the Lollards. Evangelicals are latter-day Lollards and Pietists, theologies not born in the USA. |
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Post by slowcomingwarbird on Sept 7, 2022 17:43:15 GMT
That record low, though is still 81% which is staggeringly high to my mind. (at the beginning of the 1970's it was nearly 100%) Why is the US so religious? For example, in the UK only 27% believe in God. Two similar countries, supposedly linked in so many things, what makes one so religious and one so "not".? Mostly because such a large segment of the American population work a labor intensive job until it destroys their health and they are no longer able to work and still too poverty stricken to enjoy any kind of retirement or even pay their medical bills. Most end up dying in misery while corporations can just replace them from a seemingly endless supply of workers. Therefore for the sake of their sanity, they want to believe that there is some kind of afterlife something better waiting for them in the hereafter as it is quite certain that the quality of their lives will not improve. That is why Americans are so obsessed with religion, because the thought of this life being all there is would be too much for them to handle both for themselves and the way they treat others. |
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Post by Top Bloke on Sept 8, 2022 11:06:09 GMT
Which means Pilarinhavana becomes even less relevant. What has she got besides the criticism of Christianity? Nothing. The MCU maybe. But that’s the dumbest religion on Earth.
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