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Post by ayatollah on Mar 22, 2023 23:39:06 GMT
An ethnic group conquerors an empire, enslaved and oppressed many, but in doing so becomes diverse, it gradually extends citizenship to everyone at birth.
It's leaders are greedy and shortsighted, they care about their own personal gain and not about civic duty.
A formerly oppressed group that revels in it's oppression gradually wins more converts and consolidates control over the Empire. Its preachers tell it's adherents how a paradise is coming if we'd all believe in it.
Part of the empire collapses, part survives for a thousand years.
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Post by mowlick on Mar 29, 2023 12:46:13 GMT
No
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Post by stammerhead on Mar 30, 2023 9:02:26 GMT
I know Christianity destroyed the slave trade and that's pretty woke. Mind you, being Christian didn't stop people doing other non-Christian activities.
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 31, 2023 19:31:00 GMT
I know Christianity destroyed the slave trade It did? |
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Post by stammerhead on Mar 31, 2023 19:58:06 GMT
I know Christianity destroyed the slave trade It did? Yeah, I overstated it a bit there. The abolitionist movement was started through Christian beliefs but it never ended slavery. I went off on a tangent there. |
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Post by stammerhead on Mar 31, 2023 20:12:20 GMT
I know Christianity destroyed the slave trade It did? Actually forget I ever said that. I’m not really sure what I was thinking of. |
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 31, 2023 21:03:19 GMT
Yeah, I overstated it a bit there. The abolitionist movement was started through Christian beliefs but it never ended slavery. I went off on a tangent there. Okay, so it had a hand in abolition over a thousand years later. But after Constantine Christians ruled the empire, it was actual Christian nationalism, but they didn't end slavery. Which is why I think it's Roman Wokism. A previous oppressed group, now in power, still oppressing. |
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Post by stammerhead on Mar 31, 2023 21:28:43 GMT
Yeah, I overstated it a bit there. The abolitionist movement was started through Christian beliefs but it never ended slavery. I went off on a tangent there. Okay, so it had a hand in abolition over a thousand years later. But after Constantine Christians ruled the empire, it was actual Christian nationalism, but they didn't end slavery. Which is why I think it's Roman Wokism. A previous oppressed group, now in power, still oppressing. As I said, I’m not sure what I was thinking of… Anyway, from a history website… One key reasons Christianity was able to spread throughout this vast empire was that many people viewed the new religion as something they could easily adopt without having to change their existing cultural and religious practices.A bit like how you can fight for climate change while still flying everywhere. |
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Post by ayatollah on Mar 31, 2023 22:43:18 GMT
Okay, so it had a hand in abolition over a thousand years later. But after Constantine Christians ruled the empire, it was actual Christian nationalism, but they didn't end slavery. Which is why I think it's Roman Wokism. A previous oppressed group, now in power, still oppressing. As I said, I’m not sure what I was thinking of… Anyway, from a history website… One key reasons Christianity was able to spread throughout this vast empire was that many people viewed the new religion as something they could easily adopt without having to change their existing cultural and religious practices.A bit like how you can fight for climate change while still flying everywhere. And Christianity did change their previous cultural and religious practices, sometimes violently. Strangely, the Roman civic religion it replaced was generally tolerant towards most religions of conquered people, provided you paid your taxes and recruited levies for the imperial army. |
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Post by Feologild on Apr 2, 2023 15:50:42 GMT
No i don`t think so.
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Post by ayatollah on Apr 3, 2023 16:39:29 GMT
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Post by Winter_King on Apr 4, 2023 8:32:39 GMT
The part that contradicts this view is that the Eastern part was as Christian as the Western part if not more, not only was more powerful than the West, it also survived longer.
I guess Christianity did play a part in the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire when the Crusaders decided to sack Constantinople in 1204.
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Post by mowlick on Apr 4, 2023 18:00:14 GMT
Actually forget I ever said that. I’m not really sure what I was thinking of. Maybe Granville Sharp (1735 - 1813) who is he was not the father of the UK abolitionist movement, certainly dipped his wick. And Sharp's dad was Thomas Sharp (1693–1759), Archdeacon of Northumberland, so there was probably a bit of the old time religion around.
And twelve hundred years before Pope Gregory had walked through a slave market and exclaimed "Non Angli sed angeli", which is Latin for not slaves but Anglicans.
So it looks as though stammerhead is right.
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Post by stammerhead on Apr 4, 2023 19:18:20 GMT
Actually forget I ever said that. I’m not really sure what I was thinking of. Maybe Granville Sharp (1735 - 1813) who is he was not the father of the UK abolitionist movement, certainly dipped his wick. And Sharp's dad was Thomas Sharp (1693–1759), Archdeacon of Northumberland, so there was probably a bit of the old time religion around.
And twelve hundred years before Pope Gregory had walked through a slave market and exclaimed "Non Angli sed angeli", which is Latin for not slaves but Anglicans.
So it looks as though stammerhead is right.
I did listen to this episode of The Rest is History but that was after I made my bold claim... 316. The First Abolitionist It's 1718, an English Quaker lands in Barbados. He is soon horrified to discover the treatment of people working the plantations there. Treatment the Marquis de Sade saw as the only cruelty that could rival that of the ancients. Listen to discover how Benjamin Lay became the first abolitionist, performing many stunts to shock and convince his fellow Quakers and humans that slavery was abhorrent and wrong. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh Thought Mountie on Apr 4, 2023 23:15:42 GMT
I know Christianity destroyed the slave trade It did? You can’t own another Christian, but he can be a serf under the feudal system, which wasn’t much better back then. |
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