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Post by darkramj on May 12, 2023 16:41:26 GMT
There is substantial basis for the defendant on self-defense grounds. But someone died and the person responsible as well as their actions is known. So it is appropriate for there to be charges and a trial. I have the same concerns as others about how fair that trial will be, given that it's NYC...but there has to be one all the same.
That was my thought, as well.
They're letting career criminals roam free........crime after crime..........and charging people who should be applauded rather than charged?
We'll see. Like I said, a trial is appropriate. Jurors are very likely to be people who ride the same subway system. And the witnesses are regular people who ride it as well. It will be risky, I think, for leftist prosecutors to condemn their testimony. You can excuse potential jurors if what they might say doesn't fit the narrative...but not eye witnesses. So he's got that going for him. |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 16:44:08 GMT
That is wrong. The law says you don't have to wait to get hit to practice self defense. The law says it has to be imminent danger. It also says that the force has to be proportional to the crime. Based on what I’ve seen so far, there was no imminent danger and the force used not proportional. But, again we need to wait for the trial. Some new information could come out. You do not have enough information to decide whether or not there was imminent danger. I can't find the extended video of the incident. Unless you have seen that, nobody knows whether or not Neely was an imminent threat. Or if Penny is guilty, or innocent. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 16:44:31 GMT
It depends how imminent the harm was. From what I gather, the guy was just ranting. But, that is what trials are for. We shall see what the evidence shows. No. Multiple people said he was threatening people. Making threats does not mean danger is imminent. Did he swing at someone? Was he charging at someone? If all he did was scream and move like crazy, the threat was not imminent. |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 16:46:17 GMT
No. Multiple people said he was threatening people. Making threats does not mean danger is imminent. Did he swing at someone? Was he charging at someone? If all he did was scream and move like crazy, the threat was not imminent. It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 16:46:34 GMT
The law says it has to be imminent danger. It also says that the force has to be proportional to the crime. Based on what I’ve seen so far, there was no imminent danger and the force used not proportional. But, again we need to wait for the trial. Some new information could come out. You do not have enough information to decide whether or not there was imminent danger. I can't find the extended video of the incident. Unless you have seen that, nobody knows whether or not Neely was an imminent threat. Or if Penny is guilty, or innocent. That’s exactly what I am saying. We need to wait for the trial or see if new information comes out. |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 16:47:30 GMT
You do not have enough information to decide whether or not there was imminent danger. I can't find the extended video of the incident. Unless you have seen that, nobody knows whether or not Neely was an imminent threat. Or if Penny is guilty, or innocent. That’s exactly what I am saying. We need to wait for the trial or see if new information comes out. That is not what you are saying. You are implying Penny is guilty. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 17:03:08 GMT
Making threats does not mean danger is imminent. Did he swing at someone? Was he charging at someone? If all he did was scream and move like crazy, the threat was not imminent. It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. He has to be about to attack someone at least. Like if someone charges about to swing at you. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 17:04:37 GMT
That’s exactly what I am saying. We need to wait for the trial or see if new information comes out. That is not what you are saying. You are implying Penny is guilty. In my first post in this thread, I said I am not sure. I am not implying anything. |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 17:09:50 GMT
It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. He has to be about to attack someone at least. Like if someone charges about to swing at you. We do not know if he was about to attack anybody or not. Many press reports have reported many people called police saying Neely was being threatening. You do not have enough information to imply Penny is guilty. If you are leaning in any direction, you look biased, not objective, and not fair. I don't think I am stretching to assume you have a knee jerk response to all incidents like this to automatically assume the black criminal is right. And the white guy is wrong. Black guys are on the little snippets of video broadcasted helping Penny. And we can assume black people called police on Neely. You think this was a racist hate crime? |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 17:12:26 GMT
That is not what you are saying. You are implying Penny is guilty. In my first post in this thread, I said I am not sure. I am not implying anything. And ever since then, you are insinuating Penny is guilty. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 17:20:36 GMT
In my first post in this thread, I said I am not sure. I am not implying anything. And ever since then, you are insinuating Penny is guilty. No I have not. |
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Post by ayatollah on May 12, 2023 17:21:08 GMT
Making threats does not mean danger is imminent. Did he swing at someone? Was he charging at someone? If all he did was scream and move like crazy, the threat was not imminent. It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. Exactly. He was an imminent threat because he said he was an imminent threat. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 17:25:09 GMT
He has to be about to attack someone at least. Like if someone charges about to swing at you. We do not know if he was about to attack anybody or not. Many press reports have reported many people called police saying Neely was being threatening. You do not have enough information to imply Penny is guilty. If you are leaning in any direction, you look biased, not objective, and not fair. I don't think I am stretching to assume you have a knee jerk response to all incidents like this to automatically assume the black criminal is right. And the white guy is wrong. Black guys are on the little snippets of video broadcasted helping Penny. And we can assume black people called police on Neely. You think this was a racist hate crime? Since I haven’t implied he is guilty, then the rest of your post is meaningless. At all times, I have been guarded about saying if Penny is guilty or not. Based on the information that has been circulated, I don’t see how Penny has a self-defense argument. But I am open to change my mind if more information comes out. I’ve defended Kyle Rittenhouse, Trump on the NYC charges and Jose Alba. All three defended by the right. So, yes, I can be fairly objective. In fact, I am probably among the most objective posters here. |
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Post by Boricanator on May 12, 2023 17:25:49 GMT
It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. Exactly. He was an imminent threat because he said he was an imminent threat. That’s not how the law works. |
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Post by movieliker on May 12, 2023 17:28:51 GMT
It doesn't mean he wasn't an imminent threat. He doesn't have to violently attack anybody to be an imminent threat. Exactly. He was an imminent threat because he said he was an imminent threat. It takes more than that. Anybody can say that. Even people guilty of murder. But Penny has witnesses --- white and black --- who not only said Neely was threatening them, they were assisting Penny in holding Neely down. |
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