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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 19, 2023 12:10:33 GMT
Racism in Germany: Sinti and Roma are at risk Marcel Fürstenau A novel report aims to classify the extent of antiziganism in Germany, including within state institutions. Yet there are some bright spots. www.dw.com/en/racism-in-germany-sinti-and-roma-are-at-risk/a-66847613I did know the Italian for gypsies was I zingari. It’s also the name of a very old English cricket team.
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Post by Hnefahogg on Sept 19, 2023 12:15:01 GMT
Old-fashioned German for Gypsies is Zigeuner. The words ziehende Gauner mean conniving or travelling thief.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 19, 2023 12:17:58 GMT
Old-fashioned German for Gypsies is Ziegeuner. The words Ziehende Gauner mean conniving or travelling thief. Yes, then there’s:
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Sept 19, 2023 12:46:58 GMT
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Post by Hnefahogg on Sept 19, 2023 13:15:58 GMT
Old-fashioned German for Gypsies is Ziegeuner. The words Ziehende Gauner mean conniving or travelling thief. Yes, then there’s: You black gypsy, come play something for me Cause I want to forget today what I lost You black gypsy, you know my pain And when your violin cries, my heart cries too. Play me the sweet song of a golden age Play me the old song of love and sorrow You black gypsy, come, play in my ear For I want to forget all that I have lost Today I can't go to sleep, today I can't rest I want to dance, I want to light up, I want to play music ♪ I'm so sad that I can't stay alone ♪ ♪ I want to bewitch my heart with music and wine ♪ You black gypsy, you know my pain And when your violin cries, my heart cries too Play me the sweet song of a golden age Play me the old song of love and sorrow You black gypsy, come play in my ear For I will forget today what I have lost For I want to forget today what I lost
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Sept 19, 2023 17:00:53 GMT
Vico Torriani's song is a nice tune, he had some more German schlager in his career later. But contentwise this song is nearly unbearable. Especially as this song came out so early after 1945. Remembering that Sinti and Roma died in concentration camps, too, a German had no right for asking: see here >> Remembering the 'Auschwitz decree' to kill Romawww.dw.com/en/remembering-himmlers-auschwitz-decree-to-exterminate-roma-and-sinti/a-41824830Sure, at the time of medium 1950ies many details were not so much known to the general public (or better suppressed for helping Germany to focus on rebuilding Germany). But those who wanted to know could know. An interesting debate had been going on for a long time whether Leni Riefenstahl who used some gipsies for her movie "Tiefland" had been abusing them or saved them from being killed. In case someone wants to dig deeper en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiefland_(film){Tiefland Controversy}In 1940, shooting of the movie was moved from Spain to Germany and Italy. In the Dolomites, people from the Sarntal were recruited as (paid) extras. However, for extras with a specific "Roma look", Riefenstahl picked children and adults of Roma and Sinti background who were held in Nazi collection camps, so-called "Zigeunerlager". Fifty-one Roma and Sinti prisoners were chosen from the Maxglan-Leopoldskron camp (near Salzburg) for filming in the Alps in 1940, and, in 1942, at least 66 Roma and Sinti prisoners were taken from the Marzahn camp for scenes at Babelsberg. These extras are seen, for instance, in the dancing sequence in the tavern, and Sinti children run alongside Pedro when he comes down from the mountain to marry Martha.
In three denazification trials after the war, Riefenstahl was accused of Nazi collaboration and eventually termed a "fellow traveler"; however, none of the Sinti was asked to testify. The issue surfaced after the German magazine Revue published the use of these extras in 1949 and indicated that they were forced labor and sent later to Auschwitz where many of them perished in the Holocaust. While some of the surviving Sinti claimed that they were mistreated, others dissented. Riefenstahl claimed that she treated these extras well, and that she was not aware that they were going to be sent to Auschwitz. At one point she even insisted that, after the war, she had seen "all the gypsies" who had worked on the film.
In 1982, Nina Gladitz produced a documentary Zeit des Schweigens und der Dunkelheit (Time of Darkness and Silence) and examined the use of these Sinti in the making of Tiefland. Riefenstahl subsequently sued Gladitz for defamation and while it was shown that she visited camps and selected Sinti for extras, Gladitz' claim that Riefenstahl knew that they would be sent to Auschwitz had to be stricken from the documentary. Gladitz, however, refused to do so, and thus her film has not been shown since.
The issue surfaced again in 2002, when Riefenstahl was one hundred years old. She was taken to court by a Roma group for denial of the extermination of the Romani. As a consequence of the case Riefenstahl made the following apology, "I regret that Sinti and Roma had to suffer during the period of National Socialism. It is known today that many of them were murdered in concentration camps." One has to dig deep for such stuff in case someone proposes Riefenstahl's or Gladitz' movie for an arthouse cinema to be prepared for discussions ...
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Post by Hnefahogg on Sept 19, 2023 17:22:23 GMT
Vico Torriani's song is a nice tune, he had some more German schlager in his career later. But contentwise this song is nearly unbearable. Especially as this song came out so early after 1945. Remembering that Sinti and Roma died in concentration camps, too, a German had no right for asking: see here >> Remembering the 'Auschwitz decree' to kill Romawww.dw.com/en/remembering-himmlers-auschwitz-decree-to-exterminate-roma-and-sinti/a-41824830Sure, at the time of medium 1950ies many details were not so much known to the general public (or better suppressed for helping Germany to focus on rebuilding Germany). But those who wanted to know could know. An interesting debate had been going on for a long time whether Leni Riefenstahl who used some gipsies for her movie "Tiefland" had been abusing them or saved them from being killed. In case someone wants to dig deeper en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiefland_(film){Tiefland Controversy}In 1940, shooting of the movie was moved from Spain to Germany and Italy. In the Dolomites, people from the Sarntal were recruited as (paid) extras. However, for extras with a specific "Roma look", Riefenstahl picked children and adults of Roma and Sinti background who were held in Nazi collection camps, so-called "Zigeunerlager". Fifty-one Roma and Sinti prisoners were chosen from the Maxglan-Leopoldskron camp (near Salzburg) for filming in the Alps in 1940, and, in 1942, at least 66 Roma and Sinti prisoners were taken from the Marzahn camp for scenes at Babelsberg. These extras are seen, for instance, in the dancing sequence in the tavern, and Sinti children run alongside Pedro when he comes down from the mountain to marry Martha.
In three denazification trials after the war, Riefenstahl was accused of Nazi collaboration and eventually termed a "fellow traveler"; however, none of the Sinti was asked to testify. The issue surfaced after the German magazine Revue published the use of these extras in 1949 and indicated that they were forced labor and sent later to Auschwitz where many of them perished in the Holocaust. While some of the surviving Sinti claimed that they were mistreated, others dissented. Riefenstahl claimed that she treated these extras well, and that she was not aware that they were going to be sent to Auschwitz. At one point she even insisted that, after the war, she had seen "all the gypsies" who had worked on the film.
In 1982, Nina Gladitz produced a documentary Zeit des Schweigens und der Dunkelheit (Time of Darkness and Silence) and examined the use of these Sinti in the making of Tiefland. Riefenstahl subsequently sued Gladitz for defamation and while it was shown that she visited camps and selected Sinti for extras, Gladitz' claim that Riefenstahl knew that they would be sent to Auschwitz had to be stricken from the documentary. Gladitz, however, refused to do so, and thus her film has not been shown since.
The issue surfaced again in 2002, when Riefenstahl was one hundred years old. She was taken to court by a Roma group for denial of the extermination of the Romani. As a consequence of the case Riefenstahl made the following apology, "I regret that Sinti and Roma had to suffer during the period of National Socialism. It is known today that many of them were murdered in concentration camps." One has to dig deep for such stuff in case someone proposes Riefenstahl's or Gladitz' movie for an arthouse cinema to be prepared for discussions ... Yeah, I don't dispute that it is racist and outdated by modern terms. Gypsies here in Scandinavia are called zigenare similar to in German, and they are probably the group that suffers the most racism, at least "commonly". When I grew up, my mother taught me it was wrong to hate Jews and people only did because they were jealous of their success, and how evil the Holocaust was, but she always considered it perfectly acceptable to hate Gypsies (not even realising that they were also victims of the Holocaust). As did most around me. Even immigrants used Gypsy as an insult for "stateless peoples" like Assyrians, Palestinians, Kurds etc.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 19, 2023 17:31:39 GMT
We have Travelling people over here. I don’t think they’re Romani though.
No one here likes them because a large proportion of them are very anti-social and criminality is a way of life for many.
I know nobbi will cringe at that, but that’s the way it is.
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Post by Hnefahogg on Sept 19, 2023 19:23:18 GMT
We have Travelling people over here. I don’t think they’re Romani though. No one here likes them because a large proportion of them are very anti-social and criminality is a way of life for many. I know nobbi will cringe at that, but that’s the way it is. Travellers are of Irish descent, but they basically live and behave like Gypsies. Here in Scandinavia, the Finnish Gypsies (Kale) traditionally have the worst reputation out of all of them.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 19, 2023 19:28:34 GMT
We have Travelling people over here. I don’t think they’re Romani though. No one here likes them because a large proportion of them are very anti-social and criminality is a way of life for many. I know nobbi will cringe at that, but that’s the way it is. Travellers are of Irish descent, but they basically live and behave like Gypsies. Here in Scandinavia, the Finnish Gypsies (Kale) traditionally have the worst reputation out of all of them. I read a bit about Kale earlier. Never heard the name before. They have them in NW Wales apparently.
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