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Post by skaathar on Jan 14, 2024 2:19:11 GMT
Hell if you really want to be honest, audiences didn't know or care about Iron Man until that movie was made. Not completely true. While Ironman wasn't as popular as Spiderman or Wolverine, he did still have quite a successful comicbook run and even had his own cartoon show. He also featured in a number of computer games. Your average audience might not have been familiar with him but majority of comicbook fans (even the casual ones) were pretty excited for his movie. I know, I was there in the original IMDB forums. The Ironman forum was very active leading to and after his movie.
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Post by anwar on Jan 14, 2024 13:55:02 GMT
With this kind of "Not important enough!" thinking, the MCU wouldn't exist in the first place. The Avengers? That’s a top tier Marvel property. I remember people being extremely excited for that movie. It was a massive event! What are you on about, Sam? Some where, but a lot of people were sure the movie would flop and the MCU would end then and there.
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Post by anwar on Jan 14, 2024 13:55:40 GMT
All I know is that I'm fine with obscure characters getting a show or movie. It's better than constantly getting Batman, Xmen or even Spider-Man movies. I both agree and disagree. There's a difference between lesser known characters vs. characters that are completely unknown. It's the difference between Ronan vs. Dar-Benn. Or The Punisher vs. Night Thrasher. Adam Warlock vs. Red Shift. I love lesser-known characters getting their own shows, but when it comes to the extremely obscure characters (like Echo), well, let's just say that they are that obscure mostly because they weren't interesting characters to begin with. So instead of giving bottom-of-the-barrel characters like her a show of her own, why not put that money and effort towards other chracters with a more proven track record who aren't quite as popular as A-listers like Batman or Spiderman? Instead of Echo, why not give Elektra a series? Instead of Agatha Harkness why not use Enchantress or even Morgan Le Fey? Elektra's movie bombed, and they did use Morgan Le Fey in the Runaways TV show beforehand. That's why.
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Post by anwar on Jan 14, 2024 13:56:42 GMT
They should have made Hawkeye about Hawkeye and made a second series about that. I’m sorry if he’s just another white guy. They did make Hawkeye about Hawkeye.
If you're complaining about Kate Bishop, then do you also complain whenever Robin gets prominence in a Batman story?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2024 19:06:47 GMT
The Avengers? That’s a top tier Marvel property. I remember people being extremely excited for that movie. It was a massive event! What are you on about, Sam? Some where, but a lot of people were sure the movie would flop and the MCU would end then and there. That’s not the same thing as saying they are obscure characters nobody had heard of. You were seriously trying to equate the obscurity of Echo to the freakin Avengers. I gotta keep you honest, Sammy. That’s what I’m here for.
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Post by anwar on Jan 14, 2024 23:45:30 GMT
Some where, but a lot of people were sure the movie would flop and the MCU would end then and there. That’s not the same thing as saying they are obscure characters nobody had heard of. You were seriously trying to equate the obscurity of Echo to the freakin Avengers. I gotta keep you honest, Sammy. That’s what I’m here for. I'm trying to say that even after the MCU proved itself with the preceding 5 movies, is still wasn't enough to get people to stop thinking that Avengers would flop. So that attitude of "Echo is too obscure and no one wanted a show about her" is the same mindset, utter nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2024 23:55:41 GMT
That’s not the same thing as saying they are obscure characters nobody had heard of. You were seriously trying to equate the obscurity of Echo to the freakin Avengers. I gotta keep you honest, Sammy. That’s what I’m here for. I'm trying to say that even after the MCU proved itself with the preceding 5 movies, is still wasn't enough to get people to stop thinking that Avengers would flop. So that attitude of "Echo is too obscure and no one wanted a show about her" is the same mindset, utter nonsense. It’s not the same though at all really. I really don’t mind if Echo gets a show or not. Your Avengers analogy is a HUGE reach though.
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Post by anwar on Jan 15, 2024 12:33:54 GMT
I'm trying to say that even after the MCU proved itself with the preceding 5 movies, is still wasn't enough to get people to stop thinking that Avengers would flop. So that attitude of "Echo is too obscure and no one wanted a show about her" is the same mindset, utter nonsense. It’s not the same though at all really. I really don’t mind if Echo gets a show or not. Your Avengers analogy is a HUGE reach though. It doesn't change that right up till the premiere, the majority were still on the fence about Avengers and most assumed it would fail and the MCU would die then and there.
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Post by hauntedknight87 on Jan 15, 2024 15:11:44 GMT
I don't remember anyone saying Avengers would flop, outside of the crazy anti-mcu people like AHfan/DCfan.
I do remember a caim being made that a Avengers movie wouldn't get made back then. So that was fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2024 18:37:50 GMT
It’s not the same though at all really. I really don’t mind if Echo gets a show or not. Your Avengers analogy is a HUGE reach though. It doesn't change that right up till the premiere, the majority were still on the fence about Avengers and most assumed it would fail and the MCU would die then and there. Even if that were true it has absolutely nothing to do with the point you were originally trying to make. This is my favorite thing that you do though. When you’re caught you move the goalposts. Kick it from the 50, Sam! That’s where you fumbled it!
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Post by skaathar on Jan 15, 2024 20:54:20 GMT
I don't remember anyone saying Avengers would flop, outside of the crazy anti-mcu people like AHfan/DCfan. I do remember a caim being made that a Avengers movie wouldn't get made back then. So that was fun. Actually, I'd say majority of people were saying Avengers would flop, me included. Especially professional movie critics. Not because they were unpopular but simply because of the logistics and red tape involved in a crossover ensemble movie. We have to remember that while it may seem commonplace nowadays, a crossover ensemble blockbuster like The Avengers had never been attempted prior to it coming out. The closest we've had prior to that was probably AVP, but that was only 2 characters crossing over and it bombed. In fact when you really think about it, no other film (other than other MCU movies) has been able to do what the Avengers did, at least not with the same success. Justice League is the closest you get but that was nowhere near as successful as The Avengers. CW did it with their Arrowverse but I assume it's easier to crossover TV shows compared to blockbusters. So while there was immense excitement for Avengers and most people were hoping for it to be successful, majority of predictions also didn't expect it to be successful. It's like buying the lottery and getting really excited for it, but realistically you know the chances of you winning are extremely low.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2024 21:39:55 GMT
I don't remember anyone saying Avengers would flop, outside of the crazy anti-mcu people like AHfan/DCfan. I do remember a caim being made that a Avengers movie wouldn't get made back then. So that was fun. Actually, I'd say majority of people were saying Avengers would flop, me included. Especially professional movie critics. Not because they were unpopular but simply because of the logistics and red tape involved in a crossover ensemble movie. We have to remember that while it may seem commonplace nowadays, a crossover ensemble blockbuster like The Avengers had never been attempted prior to it coming out. The closest we've had prior to that was probably AVP, but that was only 2 characters crossing over and it bombed. In fact when you really think about it, no other film (other than other MCU movies) has been able to do what the Avengers did, at least not with the same success. Justice League is the closest you get but that was nowhere near as successful as The Avengers. CW did it with their Arrowverse but I assume it's easier to crossover TV shows compared to blockbusters. So while there was immense excitement for Avengers and most people were hoping for it to be successful, majority of predictions also didn't expect it to be successful. It's like buying the lottery and getting really excited for it, but realistically you know the chances of you winning are extremely low. Keep in mind though that this was only brought up by Sam as a distraction from his absurd attempt to equate Echo’s obscurity with the “obscurity” of The Avengers.
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Post by skaathar on Jan 15, 2024 21:56:56 GMT
Actually, I'd say majority of people were saying Avengers would flop, me included. Especially professional movie critics. Not because they were unpopular but simply because of the logistics and red tape involved in a crossover ensemble movie. We have to remember that while it may seem commonplace nowadays, a crossover ensemble blockbuster like The Avengers had never been attempted prior to it coming out. The closest we've had prior to that was probably AVP, but that was only 2 characters crossing over and it bombed. In fact when you really think about it, no other film (other than other MCU movies) has been able to do what the Avengers did, at least not with the same success. Justice League is the closest you get but that was nowhere near as successful as The Avengers. CW did it with their Arrowverse but I assume it's easier to crossover TV shows compared to blockbusters. So while there was immense excitement for Avengers and most people were hoping for it to be successful, majority of predictions also didn't expect it to be successful. It's like buying the lottery and getting really excited for it, but realistically you know the chances of you winning are extremely low. Keep in mind though that this was only brought up by Sam as a distraction from his absurd attempt to equate Echo’s obscurity with the “obscurity” of The Avengers. Oh yeah, understood. The idea that Avengers were completely unknown and only became popular because of their movie is completely ridiculous. Like I mentioned in my above reply, the challenge that Avengers faced weren't that they were unpopular but simply because of the finances and logistics involved in trying to make the first ever major crossover ensemble movie. Echo is a completely different story. Even most comic fans would never have heard of her.
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Post by anwar on Jan 16, 2024 1:24:27 GMT
It doesn't change that right up till the premiere, the majority were still on the fence about Avengers and most assumed it would fail and the MCU would die then and there. Even if that were true it has absolutely nothing to do with the point you were originally trying to make. This is my favorite thing that you do though. When you’re caught you move the goalposts. Kick it from the 50, Sam! That’s where you fumbled it! The point I was trying to make is that saying "No One Wants This!" is idiotic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2024 1:55:02 GMT
Even if that were true it has absolutely nothing to do with the point you were originally trying to make. This is my favorite thing that you do though. When you’re caught you move the goalposts. Kick it from the 50, Sam! That’s where you fumbled it! The point I was trying to make is that saying "No One Wants This!" is idiotic. Right. And you failed to make that point. Because few people (if any) were saying that about TheAvengers.
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