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Post by uncreative on Dec 20, 2023 1:58:31 GMT
I don't know if comparing pregnant women to slave owners is really the type of analogy you want to leading with.
A possible flipside to that argument is all the males who have become enslaved to child support payments for almost 2 decades because, against their wishes, an abortion was not performed.
That's a whole other can of worms, and unlike regular abortion I can actually see why financial abortions would be controversial.
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Post by averagejoe2021 on Dec 20, 2023 1:59:25 GMT
True. Perspective is key. People who have owned slaves (per their journals), committed rape/murder, abused others, etc all feel less/little/no trauma as the weight of their actions is lessened through time. This isn't a reflection of the wisdom/morality of any of these decisions; but rather, is the human coping ability as self-preservation is our strongest instinct and is especially the case when we need to live with our past actions. I don't know if comparing pregnant women to slave owners is really the type of analogy you want to leading with. Fair enough. If I have offended any slave-owners by comparing them to people who would off their unborn children mostly out of convenience, I apologize. Is that better?
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Post by abbey1227 on Dec 20, 2023 2:02:39 GMT
That's a whole other can of worms, and unlike regular abortion I can actually see why financial abortions would be controversial.
It's part of the discussion. Men have NO say on the other end, do they?
What's the controversy?
The price? Who pays?
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Post by uncreative on Dec 20, 2023 2:10:50 GMT
That's a whole other can of worms, and unlike regular abortion I can actually see why financial abortions would be controversial.
It's part of the discussion. Men have NO say on the other end, do they?
What's the controversy?
The price? Who pays? Well for starters it's not even close to a viable option unless medical abortions are widely available for any reason. Then there's the issue about why child support exists in the first place, which is to save the state money from having to write out welfare checks and food stamps and everything. What if a guy exercises his option to opt out of being the dad but the mom is one of those delusional types who thinks God will provide somehow? Is the state supposed to just let the kid grow up desperately poor with no child support instead of regularly poor with regular child support? That's how you end up with generational poverty and crime rates. Not trying arguing for or against it because I legitimately don't know how I feel about it.
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Post by jimmywynn on Dec 20, 2023 2:12:12 GMT
There's a lot of people in the world. Even if 10% actually did regret their decision or whatever that's a terrible reason to make things harder for the other 90%.
Just playing devil's advocate..........
You must have earned quite a pension plan by now.
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Post by winterssuicide on Dec 20, 2023 2:18:56 GMT
For them to kill their own children. Yep, we want that to be really hard for them. Extremely hard. Setting aside the issue of whether or not a zygote counts as a child or not, is that the type of person you want raising a kid? Better than killing them. Adults overcome childhood trauma sometimes and I'm all about giving people a chance. And why ithe fuck would I set it aside? It is 100% provably a developing human, not matter what euphemism you use.
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Post by winterssuicide on Dec 20, 2023 2:21:56 GMT
True. Perspective is key. People who have owned slaves (per their journals), committed rape/murder, abused others, etc all feel less/little/no trauma as the weight of their actions is lessened through time. This isn't a reflection of the wisdom/morality of any of these decisions; but rather, is the human coping ability as self-preservation is our strongest instinct and is especially the case when we need to live with our past actions. I don't know if comparing pregnant women to slave owners is really the type of analogy you want to leading with. It was a perfect analogy, actually. Mothers who kill their own children are ten times worse than slave owners, duh.
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Post by π₯₯ π΄ Molly π₯₯ π΄ on Dec 20, 2023 2:24:56 GMT
I think men who beat their children worse, but thatβs just me.
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Post by winterssuicide on Dec 20, 2023 2:31:07 GMT
I think men who beat their children worse, but thatβs just me. ^^^something Husky used to say^^^
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Post by thekindercarebear on Dec 20, 2023 2:41:24 GMT
I think men who beat their children worse, but thatβs just me. I have no qualms spanking either of my kids. I prefer not to but if the situation requires it, I won't hesitate.
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Post by dlancer on Dec 20, 2023 3:40:22 GMT
This is my entire issue. They can't debate this issue at all. They went too far. "I'm proud of my abortion." WHAT!? So, the other side goes nuts. So now the 2 fringe sides lead the argument, and the leaners and independents are left scratching their heads... Wondering what the fuck happened to this country. π» One side went too far by banning it even for nonviable miscarriages.
The other side went "too far" by saying abortion instead of abortion rights???
Holy shit, the right has the freedom to do anything, because you'll just say the other side sneezed.
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Post by abbey1227 on Dec 20, 2023 3:49:44 GMT
Well for starters it's not even close to a viable option unless medical abortions are widely available for any reason. Then there's the issue about why child support exists in the first place, which is to save the state money from having to write out welfare checks and food stamps and everything. What if a guy exercises his option to opt out of being the dad but the mom is one of those delusional types who thinks God will provide somehow? Is the state supposed to just let the kid grow up desperately poor with no child support instead of regularly poor with regular child support? That's how you end up with generational poverty and crime rates. Not trying arguing for or against it because I legitimately don't know how I feel about it.
You're already 2-3 steps ahead of what I happen to agree with. Who said the State ever had to involve itself at all?
Yes! That's what the state is supposed to do, imo. Welfare has been in place for how long? And has poverty been eliminated?
All they've done is created more people on welfare.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 4:09:32 GMT
This is my entire issue. They can't debate this issue at all. They went too far. "I'm proud of my abortion." WHAT!? So, the other side goes nuts. So now the 2 fringe sides lead the argument, and the leaners and independents are left scratching their heads... Wondering what the fuck happened to this country. π» One side went too far by banning it even for nonviable miscarriages.
The other side went "too far" by saying abortion instead of abortion rights???
Holy shit, the right has the freedom to do anything, because you'll just say the other side sneezed.
Yea, no. The fringe lunatic side. Proud of your abortions, screaming at anyone who disagrees. Pretend you're all "super innocent."
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Post by dlancer on Dec 20, 2023 4:27:05 GMT
One side went too far by banning it even for nonviable miscarriages.
The other side went "too far" by saying abortion instead of abortion rights???
Holy shit, the right has the freedom to do anything, because you'll just say the other side sneezed.
Yea, no. The fringe lunatic side. Proud of your abortions, screaming at anyone who disagrees. Pretend you're all "super innocent."
What are abortion rates at bruh?
Any sharp inclines from the "lunatic" side you claim is getting out of hand with their abortions?
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Post by uncreative on Dec 20, 2023 4:37:14 GMT
Well for starters it's not even close to a viable option unless medical abortions are widely available for any reason. Then there's the issue about why child support exists in the first place, which is to save the state money from having to write out welfare checks and food stamps and everything. What if a guy exercises his option to opt out of being the dad but the mom is one of those delusional types who thinks God will provide somehow? Is the state supposed to just let the kid grow up desperately poor with no child support instead of regularly poor with regular child support? That's how you end up with generational poverty and crime rates. Not trying arguing for or against it because I legitimately don't know how I feel about it.
You're already 2-3 steps ahead of what I happen to agree with. Who said the State ever had to involve itself at all?
Yes! That's what the state is supposed to do, imo. Welfare has been in place for how long? And has poverty been eliminated?
All they've done is created more people on welfare.
It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not. That's just the reality of how things are for now and it's not a detail that you can ignore for the topic. And for reference poverty actually did drop a lot in the 60s and stayed there after LBJs whole great society thing. Never went away entirely, but got cut in half
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