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Post by ofunknownorigins on Mar 5, 2024 13:45:44 GMT
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Post by ofunknownorigins on Mar 5, 2024 14:35:10 GMT
I wonder how many of the men the IRA executed were innocent? Kind of reminds me of the great John Ford film The Informer about the IRA hunting down an informant in Dublin. And the Brits let them die too. Awful. I mean I get death to turncoats but how can you prove it?
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 5, 2024 16:36:56 GMT
I wonder how many of the men the IRA executed were innocent? Kind of reminds me of the great John Ford film The Informer about the IRA hunting down an informant in Dublin. And the Brits let them die too. Awful. I mean I get death to turncoats but how can you prove it? They tortured them until they admitted it!
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Mar 5, 2024 23:14:45 GMT
It's difficult to read without getting bad vibes.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 9, 2024 12:21:07 GMT
Stakeknife report: Touts, torture, Thatcher and the hunt for truth. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68515021The Operation Kenova report into the Army's top spy in the IRA during the Troubles in Northern Ireland at times felt like the plot of a thriller novel. But this was no work of fiction - it was the horrific reality during decades of violence, with real people suffering the consequences. However the report's author, senior police officer Jon Boutcher, points out that the circumstances surrounding the case of that top spy - known as Stakeknife - mean that it has become "encrusted with and obscured by myths and legends". The report in many areas separated fact from fiction and addressed some of the wild claims that have been circulated about Stakeknife. At the same time it did not address the biggest fact of all - who Stakeknife was. Mr Boutcher said he could not make his name public without government approval. That is despite the fact that it is widely known that he was Belfast bricklayer Freddie Scappaticci. ….
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Post by Nogbad on Mar 10, 2024 9:17:28 GMT
I think I'll pass on that. I read a few Martin Dillon books on the subject years ago, which were all very good, but not uplifting. I still haven't forgotten where the IRA got a large part of their funding from, btw, and won't. I know all y'all like to have a Year Zero every four or eight years, but that doesn't work for us.
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on Mar 10, 2024 10:37:51 GMT
This is somewhat apposite because of the Gaza war. The IDF learnt a few things from the British army about fighting a guerrilla war against the population. The importance of effective interrogation which when done by the terrorists is called torture, but by the good guys, regretful but necessary. Using family members as bait, perhaps forcing somebody caught having an affair to become an informer. Destroying the family home of people arrested as terrorists.long term detention withot trial. Refusing to admit a political dimension to the conflict so there is no scope to negotiate a political solution. In the case of Northern Ireland, eventually after Margaret Thatcher left office, a political solution was reached. This won't happen in Israel while the US supports Netanyahu and friends.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 10, 2024 10:42:25 GMT
This is somewhat apposite because of the Gaza war. The IDF learnt a few things from the British army about fighting a guerrilla war against the population. The importance of effective interrogation which when done by the terrorists is called torture, but by the good guys, regretful but necessary. Using family members as bait, perhaps forcing somebody caught having an affair to become an informer. Destroying the family home of people arrested as terrorists.long term detention withot trial. Refusing to admit a political dimension to the conflict so there is no scope to negotiate a political solution. In the case of Northern Ireland, eventually after Margaret Thatcher left office, a political solution was reached. This won't happen in Israel while the US supports Netanyahu and friends. “Destroying the family home of people arrested as terrorists” Hadn't heard of that happening before.
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on Mar 10, 2024 10:55:28 GMT
This is somewhat apposite because of the Gaza war. The IDF learnt a few things from the British army about fighting a guerrilla war against the population. The importance of effective interrogation which when done by the terrorists is called torture, but by the good guys, regretful but necessary. Using family members as bait, perhaps forcing somebody caught having an affair to become an informer. Destroying the family home of people arrested as terrorists.long term detention withot trial. Refusing to admit a political dimension to the conflict so there is no scope to negotiate a political solution. In the case of Northern Ireland, eventually after Margaret Thatcher left office, a political solution was reached. This won't happen in Israel while the US supports Netanyahu and friends. “Destroying the family home of people arrested as terrorists” Hadn't heard of that happening before. It happens regularly in the west bank. A few years after Gerry Adams family finally got a council house after years on a waiting list, it was bulldozed, possibly because of Adams political activities or the activities of the whole street whenever the British army came by. Demolishing family homes was a British tactic but nowhere near as widespread as in the west bank. And of course the British army could never run away from the fact that Northern Irish catholics in Northern Ireland were British in Britain, a constraint the IDF does not have.
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Post by tickingmask on Mar 10, 2024 11:52:55 GMT
You don't think that Hamas' predilection for making border raids, killing civilians, committing acts of mass murder at music festivals, targeting women for humiliation and rape, and taking people hostage which they have no intention of releasing, might be getting in the way of a political solution as well? Or do you think it is just the US support of Netanyahu that is getting in the way of this?
(Edit): Oh, and I'm calling 'bullshit' over your allegation that demolishing family homes as a punitive measure was a British tactic any time within the past hundred years. That story about Gerry Adams family's council house being bulldozed sounds like a complete fabrication (unless of course it was in a dangerous condition and the council had no other option). Link from an objective news source (i.e. not an anti-British propaganda website), please, so we can actually read what this story was all about instead of being asked to go along with speculation and wild innuendo.
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Post by ofunknownorigins on Mar 10, 2024 15:08:49 GMT
I think I'll pass on that. I read a few Martin Dillon books on the subject years ago, which were all very good, but not uplifting. I still haven't forgotten where the IRA got a large part of their funding from, btw, and won't. I know all y'all like to have a Year Zero every four or eight years, but that doesn't work for us. I remember in the 80s and part of the 90s the Noraid fundraisers and other money raising things for the Catholic Irish. We knew a lot was going to buy guns. I used to hear it talked about amongst the adults. Anti-British sentiment was very strong in the Irish-American community. Most of us are descended from poor Irish who had little choice but to leave their island. My first relative came in the late 1840s from Cork which was rocked by starvation. He later joined the Union Army during the ACW. The stories were passed down and there wasn’t a soul who didn’t consider the famine and other “population controls” a genocide. So yes I think it’s important you don’t forget where some of the funding came from and that’s because Irish Americans never forgot why they came to the U.S. And whether rightly or wrongly (the famine is widely considered a major policy failure on the fault of the British that made things worse) the Irish Americans blame Britain for the woes that befell their ancestors. My Mom’s Irish side came during the War of Independence and we still keep in touch with family there. Curiously, they’re not as strongly anti-British as my Dad’s side who has been here much longer. I think it’s time for the Irish Americans to forgive, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to forgive them given you lived through that troubled time.
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Post by mowlick on Mar 10, 2024 15:22:41 GMT
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Post by ofunknownorigins on Mar 10, 2024 20:16:40 GMT
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on Mar 10, 2024 20:34:25 GMT
You don't think that Hamas' predilection for making border raids, killing civilians, committing acts of mass murder at music festivals, targeting women for humiliation and rape, and taking people hostage which they have no intention of releasing, might be getting in the way of a political solution as well? Or do you think it is just the US support of Netanyahu that is getting in the way of this?
(Edit): Oh, and I'm calling 'bullshit' over your allegation that demolishing family homes as a punitive measure was a British tactic any time within the past hundred years. That story about Gerry Adams family's council house being bulldozed sounds like a complete fabrication (unless of course it was in a dangerous condition and the council had no other option). Link from an objective news source (i.e. not an anti-British propaganda website), please, so we can actually read what this story was all about instead of being asked to go along with speculation and wild innuendo.
If I get time I will find a quote from Adams Before the Dawn, where I read about his council house.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Mar 10, 2024 22:40:25 GMT
You don't think that Hamas' predilection for making border raids, killing civilians, committing acts of mass murder at music festivals, targeting women for humiliation and rape, and taking people hostage which they have no intention of releasing, might be getting in the way of a political solution as well? Or do you think it is just the US support of Netanyahu that is getting in the way of this?
(Edit): Oh, and I'm calling 'bullshit' over your allegation that demolishing family homes as a punitive measure was a British tactic any time within the past hundred years. That story about Gerry Adams family's council house being bulldozed sounds like a complete fabrication (unless of course it was in a dangerous condition and the council had no other option). Link from an objective news source (i.e. not an anti-British propaganda website), please, so we can actually read what this story was all about instead of being asked to go along with speculation and wild innuendo.
If I get time I will find a quote from Adams Before the Dawn, where I read about his council house. His house was firebombed by the “Real IRA” six years ago. You don’t mean that do you?
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