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Post by clusium on Mar 13, 2024 5:58:40 GMT
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Post by amyghost on Mar 17, 2024 12:18:48 GMT
Many of these 'quotes' are questionable, or disproven. LaVey's is a good example; and a number of 'experts' have attempted to claim, wrongly, that the late Christopher Hitchens experienced a 'deathbed' conversion. For pity's sake, people who are in pain or suffering in their death throes can certainly be expected to say a great many things, but that doesn't mean they should be taken as proofs of anything. Except to the endlessly credulous, who tend to like grasping at straws. www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversion
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Post by clusium on Mar 18, 2024 3:56:32 GMT
Many of these 'quotes' are questionable, or disproven. LaVey's is a good example; and a number of 'experts' have attempted to claim, wrongly, that the late Christopher Hitchens experienced a 'deathbed' conversion. For pity's sake, people who are in pain or suffering in their death throes can certainly be expected to say a great many things, but that doesn't mean they should be taken as proofs of anything. Except to the endlessly credulous, who tend to like grasping at straws. www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversionNobody in the video said that those atheists experienced a death bed conversion. Just that they seemed to have an unpleasant last few hours.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 19, 2024 0:25:36 GMT
Many of these 'quotes' are questionable, or disproven. LaVey's is a good example; and a number of 'experts' have attempted to claim, wrongly, that the late Christopher Hitchens experienced a 'deathbed' conversion. For pity's sake, people who are in pain or suffering in their death throes can certainly be expected to say a great many things, but that doesn't mean they should be taken as proofs of anything. Except to the endlessly credulous, who tend to like grasping at straws. www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversionNobody in the video said that those atheists experienced a death bed conversion. Just that they seemed to have an unpleasant last few hours. Which can be more rationally explained by a number of causes than Satan shaking his fist at them.
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Post by Stammerhead on Mar 19, 2024 0:52:51 GMT
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Post by shadrack on Mar 19, 2024 9:58:23 GMT
Many of these 'quotes' are questionable, or disproven. LaVey's is a good example; and a number of 'experts' have attempted to claim, wrongly, that the late Christopher Hitchens experienced a 'deathbed' conversion. For pity's sake, people who are in pain or suffering in their death throes can certainly be expected to say a great many things, but that doesn't mean they should be taken as proofs of anything. Except to the endlessly credulous, who tend to like grasping at straws. www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversionYep.
Quotes from the believers are just as questionable. First one off the bat: the Apostle Paul's so-called "last words" are from 1 Corinthians which he wrote some ten years before he died.
And they're not even his words. He's quoting the OT.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 19, 2024 11:17:09 GMT
Many of these 'quotes' are questionable, or disproven. LaVey's is a good example; and a number of 'experts' have attempted to claim, wrongly, that the late Christopher Hitchens experienced a 'deathbed' conversion. For pity's sake, people who are in pain or suffering in their death throes can certainly be expected to say a great many things, but that doesn't mean they should be taken as proofs of anything. Except to the endlessly credulous, who tend to like grasping at straws. www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-fantasy-of-the-deathbed-conversionYep.
Quotes from the believers are just as questionable. First one off the bat: the Apostle Paul's so-called "last words" are from 1 Corinthians which he wrote some ten years before he died.
And they're not even his words. He's quoting the OT.
I find this sort of thing particularly objectionable. It's exploiting the deceased, who are in no position to answer back, as well as exploiting both the fears of humans in general and using an individual's death and possible extreme suffering to try for propaganda points. It's the side of Christianity (other religions have their own versions as well) that most repels and aggravates me. It's shameless, manipulative, and just simply wrong.
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Post by scream on Mar 19, 2024 15:45:56 GMT
Yep.
Quotes from the believers are just as questionable. First one off the bat: the Apostle Paul's so-called "last words" are from 1 Corinthians which he wrote some ten years before he died.
And they're not even his words. He's quoting the OT.
I find this sort of thing particularly objectionable. It's exploiting the deceased, who are in no position to answer back, as well as exploiting both the fears of humans in general and using an individual's death and possible extreme suffering to try for propaganda points. It's the side of Christianity (other religions have their own versions as well) that most repels and aggravates me. It's shameless, manipulative, and just simply wrong.I agree. I've been at 4 deathbeds, and there is no correlation between stated beliefs and suffering. It's no different than 'personal testimonies' and those people's behavior in real life. I've observed too many people who say one thing and then do other things inconsistent with what they have said.
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Post by SixOfTheRichest on Mar 24, 2024 3:21:34 GMT
Why are you so insistent on coflict within your belief? It's not helping your naive and ignorant cause.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Mar 24, 2024 7:31:11 GMT
I find this sort of thing particularly objectionable. It's exploiting the deceased, who are in no position to answer back, as well as exploiting both the fears of humans in general and using an individual's death and possible extreme suffering to try for propaganda points. It's the side of Christianity (other religions have their own versions as well) that most repels and aggravates me. It's shameless, manipulative, and just simply wrong.I agree. I've been at 4 deathbeds, and there is no correlation between stated beliefs and suffering. It's no different than 'personal testimonies' and those people's behavior in real life. I've observed too many people who say one thing and then do other things inconsistent with what they have said. I think people raised to believe in the damnation of soul, which means their soul will experience a real lake of fire for eternity, because it has one unconfessed sin on it, will sometimes be terrified into not having a deathbed conversion.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 24, 2024 13:46:37 GMT
I agree. I've been at 4 deathbeds, and there is no correlation between stated beliefs and suffering. It's no different than 'personal testimonies' and those people's behavior in real life. I've observed too many people who say one thing and then do other things inconsistent with what they have said. I think people raised to believe in the damnation of soul, which means their soul will experience a real lake of fire for eternity, because it has one unconfessed sin on it, will sometimes be terrified into not having a deathbed conversion. Exactly. And it's that sort of deliberate manipulation of a primal and universal fear that is, to me, horrid and repellent. A bit like the use of 'deepest fear' torture that took place in Orwell's Room 101.
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