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Post by movieliker on Feb 6, 2018 20:08:27 GMT
If somebody has many traffic tickets (speeding, red light crossing, etc) but no accidents, does that mean that they are good drivers (no accidents) but unfairly punished by the law (many tickets)?
Or a bad driver who won't follow the law?
What is the point of traffic laws? To keep people safe? Or to raise money for government?
What do you think?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 20:29:53 GMT
It means the person (although technically a good driver, maybe even a skilled driver) believes themselves to be above the law. Granted, speed limits and other traffic safety laws are likely put in place because of the lowest common denominator (accommodating for less skilled drivers), and in this end, they are directed toward the safety of most people. Most problems on the road come from people who believe they are higher skilled drivers than they are and who end up doing things they shouldn't (texting, speeding, etc.) That's not to say that governments aren't using this to make money. Of course they are. It's pretty obvious why you see speed traps more often at the end of the month and on holidays when there are more people travelling.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 6, 2018 20:54:56 GMT
It means the person (although technically a good driver, maybe even a skilled driver) believes themselves to be above the law. Granted, speed limits and other traffic safety laws are likely put in place because of the lowest common denominator (accommodating for less skilled drivers), and in this end, they are directed toward the safety of most people. Most problems on the road come from people who believe they are higher skilled drivers than they are and who end up doing things they shouldn't (texting, speeding, etc.) That's not to say that governments aren't using this to make money. Of course they are. It's pretty obvious why you see speed traps more often at the end of the month and on holidays when there are more people travelling. I agree. I have traffic tickets. And no accidents. I believe that I am not only a good driver, but a considerate driver. But I get ensnared by these stupid traffic cameras regularly. Not for doing anything that is unsafe. But by traffic cameras that were set up to raise money, not make the streets safe. I was in favor of traffic cameras when they first were created. But after seeing how they have been enforced, I know that although they make a lot of money for the municipality, they make the streets less safe. More specifically, they have shortened the yellow lights to unsafe times so that more people would get tickets. When a vehicle approaches a traffic light that turns yellow, the driver is faced with two consequential decisions --- either slam on their brakes and risk a rear end collision. Or speed up and try to beat the light, and get possibly two tickets --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the the light turns red. And possibly a speeding ticket. I agree, we have to have traffic laws and they have to be enforced equally and fairly amongst both good and bad drivers. But something is wrong when a driver with no accidents regularly gets tickets from traffic cameras.
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Post by scienceisgod on Feb 6, 2018 20:56:01 GMT
It means the person (although technically a good driver, maybe even a skilled driver) believes themselves to be above the law. Granted, speed limits and other traffic safety laws are likely put in place because of the lowest common denominator (accommodating for less skilled drivers), and in this end, they are directed toward the safety of most people. Most problems on the road come from people who believe they are higher skilled drivers than they are and who end up doing things they shouldn't (texting, speeding, etc.) That's not to say that governments aren't using this to make money. Of course they are. It's pretty obvious why you see speed traps more often at the end of the month and on holidays when there are more people travelling. Don’t men driver faster than women? Speed limits are sexist. Driving fast is a rebellion against anti-male oppression. Germans drive fast and have no accidents. Asia has special wide parking spaces for women. Ban women. Or we will again be the only industrialized country in the world to not have the same system as repressive third world countries like Saudia Arabia. People who merely believe themselves to be good drivers shouldn’t be in this discussion since they will likely, as you say, cause problems. Whereas we ought to be concerned with the government tyranny against actual good drivers, who have not caused problems. How about this. Every times a driver has many tickets and no accidents, the government has to deport an Asian woman picked at random. That’s the Left’s idea of justice, in blaming people who speed as a proxy for causing accidents instead of blaming people who cause accidents. It’s not about keeping us safe at all. That’s a lie for people who deserve to be forced to live inside a radioactive body scanner at the airport in order to be safe.
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Post by scienceisgod on Feb 6, 2018 21:10:45 GMT
It means the person (although technically a good driver, maybe even a skilled driver) believes themselves to be above the law. Granted, speed limits and other traffic safety laws are likely put in place because of the lowest common denominator (accommodating for less skilled drivers), and in this end, they are directed toward the safety of most people. Most problems on the road come from people who believe they are higher skilled drivers than they are and who end up doing things they shouldn't (texting, speeding, etc.) That's not to say that governments aren't using this to make money. Of course they are. It's pretty obvious why you see speed traps more often at the end of the month and on holidays when there are more people travelling. I agree. I have traffic tickets. And no accidents. I believe that I am not only a good driver, but a considerate driver. But I get ensnared by these stupid traffic cameras regularly. Not for doing anything that is unsafe. But by traffic cameras that were set up to raise money, not make the streets safe. I was in favor of traffic cameras when they first were created. But after seeing how they have been enforced, I know that although they make a lot of money for the municipality, they make the streets less safe. More specifically, they have shortened the yellow lights to unsafe times so that more people would get tickets. When a vehicle approaches a traffic light that turns yellow, the driver is faced with two consequential decisions --- either slam on their brakes and risk a rear end collision. Or speed up and try to beat the light, and get possibly two tickets --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the the light turns red. And possibly a speeding ticket. I agree, we have to have traffic laws and they have to be enforced equally and fairly amongst both good and bad drivers. But something is wrong when a driver with no accidents regularly gets tickets from traffic cameras. But how is it that some people were able to know all along that that was the whole point of the surveillance state? It doesn’t seem like you’ve learned your lesson at all seeing as how you are still begging for more. We DON’T need traffic laws to be enforced “equally” whatever that means (traffic laws EXIST to discriminate between “good and bad drivers”). We need fewer traffic laws, to PREVENT them from because enforced equally, abusively. The icing on the cake would be if a lack of laws caused those bad drivers to have accidents and need socialism via Big Pharma. The rest of us drivers need to be kept safe, from traffic tickets we can’t afford. The only way we can keep our freedom is to keep bad drivers off the road. How about a licensure test called real life where the penalty is an accident? Put the DMV in jail for 360 million counts of fraud.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 6, 2018 21:14:42 GMT
It means the person (although technically a good driver, maybe even a skilled driver) believes themselves to be above the law. Granted, speed limits and other traffic safety laws are likely put in place because of the lowest common denominator (accommodating for less skilled drivers), and in this end, they are directed toward the safety of most people. Most problems on the road come from people who believe they are higher skilled drivers than they are and who end up doing things they shouldn't (texting, speeding, etc.) That's not to say that governments aren't using this to make money. Of course they are. It's pretty obvious why you see speed traps more often at the end of the month and on holidays when there are more people travelling. Don’t men driver faster than women? Speed limits are sexist. Driving fast is a rebellion against anti-male oppression. Germans drive fast and have no accidents. Asia has special wide parking spaces for women. Ban women. Or we will again be the only industrialized country in the world to not have the same system as repressive third world countries like Saudia Arabia. People who merely believe themselves to be good drivers shouldn’t be in this discussion since they will likely, as you say, cause problems. Whereas we ought to be concerned with the government tyranny against actual good drivers, who have not caused problems. How about this. Every times a driver has many tickets and no accidents, the government has to deport an Asian woman picked at random. That’s the Left’s idea of justice, in blaming people who speed as a proxy for causing accidents instead of blaming people who cause accidents. It’s not about keeping us safe at all. That’s a lie for people who deserve to be forced to live inside a radioactive body scanner at the airport in order to be safe. I agree they are there to raise money, not make driving get safer. I disagree they are sexist. I know lots of women who drive fast.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 6, 2018 21:17:43 GMT
I agree. I have traffic tickets. And no accidents. I believe that I am not only a good driver, but a considerate driver. But I get ensnared by these stupid traffic cameras regularly. Not for doing anything that is unsafe. But by traffic cameras that were set up to raise money, not make the streets safe. I was in favor of traffic cameras when they first were created. But after seeing how they have been enforced, I know that although they make a lot of money for the municipality, they make the streets less safe. More specifically, they have shortened the yellow lights to unsafe times so that more people would get tickets. When a vehicle approaches a traffic light that turns yellow, the driver is faced with two consequential decisions --- either slam on their brakes and risk a rear end collision. Or speed up and try to beat the light, and get possibly two tickets --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the the light turns red. And possibly a speeding ticket. I agree, we have to have traffic laws and they have to be enforced equally and fairly amongst both good and bad drivers. But something is wrong when a driver with no accidents regularly gets tickets from traffic cameras. But how is it that some people were able to know all along that that was the whole point of the surveillance state? It doesn’t seem like you’ve learned your lesson at all seeing as how you are still begging for more. We DON’T need traffic laws to be enforced “equally” whatever that means (traffic laws EXIST to discriminate between “good and bad drivers”). We need fewer traffic laws, to PREVENT them from because enforced equally, abusively. The icing on the cake would be if a lack of laws caused those bad drivers to have accidents and need socialism via Big Pharma. The rest of us drivers need to be kept safe, from traffic tickets we can’t afford. The only way we can keep our freedom is to keep bad drivers off the road. How about a licensure test called real life where the penalty is an accident? Put the DMV in jail for 360 million counts of fraud. I disagree. We don't need less traffic laws. We need them to be enforced fairly. Traffic cameras need longer yellow lights.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 21:45:12 GMT
You didn't mention traffic camera's in your first post. I'll stick to the gist of what I was saying before, but I'll add that I am 100% against the use of traffic cameras. They are strictly there to make money and like anything electronic, the data collected can be modified in order to create violations.
Of course, your car itself is likely collecting and sending data on you every time you drive these days. I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't sign up for that "service", although I probably did in one of the 10 documents I had to sign when I bought the car.
And I'm sure you know there are camera's at intersections everywhere. These are not there to detect traffic violations. They are there to record everyone who is driving by.
THESE QUOTE BUBBLES ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!! - Sorry for the empty ones in this reply.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 6, 2018 22:38:28 GMT
You didn't mention traffic camera's in your first post. I'll stick to the gist of what I was saying before, but I'll add that I am 100% against the use of traffic cameras. They are strictly there to make money and like anything electronic, the data collected can be modified in order to create violations.
Of course, your car itself is likely collecting and sending data on you every time you drive these days. I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't sign up for that "service", although I probably did in one of the 10 documents I had to sign when I bought the car.
And I'm sure you know there are camera's at intersections everywhere. These are not there to detect traffic violations. They are there to record everyone who is driving by.
THESE QUOTE BUBBLES ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!! - Sorry for the empty ones in this reply.
I agree. I personally think they are a good idea. But only if they are enforced fairly with safety in mind. My objection is they are enforced unfairly, in an unsafe manner, strickly for the goal of making as much money as possible. I like the quote bubbles. They clearly defined who you are responding to. And what. There is a way to avoid using quote bubbles. But then the person you are responding to won't know that you responded to them. And nobody will know what you are responding to.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Feb 7, 2018 22:38:29 GMT
Part of being a good driver is following the rules of the road.
Speeding tickets, red light tickets etc = idiot.
Also someone who does not care for the safety of others. = double idiot.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 9, 2018 8:41:48 GMT
Part of being a good driver is following the rules of the road. Speeding tickets, red light tickets etc = idiot. Also someone who does not care for the safety of others. = double idiot. You don't understand. We have traffic cameras down here. They are not reasonable like a police person would be. They are only set up to raise money. It is legal to speed up (past the speed limit) to pass someone as long as you slow down after you have passed. But traffic cameras don't know or care why you are speeding. Normally, police people won't give you a ticket if your trunk or rear bumper is still clearing an intersection when a traffic light turns red. But traffic cameras will. So me getting speeding and red light tickets from traffic cameras is no indication that I am an unsafe driver. As a matter of fact, the fact that I have no accidents would strongly suggest I am a safe driver. Who is only being victimized by a city that is desperate for money. Another fact is, studies have proven that traffic cameras set up the way they are down here make the streets less safe than they were before when police people decided who should get a ticket. And who shouldn't.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Feb 9, 2018 21:53:32 GMT
You don't understand. We have traffic cameras down here. They are not reasonable like a police person would be. They are only set up to raise money. I do understand. So what if traffic cameras are there to raise money? It's better that the law-breakers pay more to the upkeep of the road. I reject this lefty supposed argument (which we have in the UK) that speed cameras are wrong because they raise money. This is the the dumbest end of the claim to human rights argument. I am glad we have speed cameras and I am glad that they raise money. You can drive as fast as you want on your own private road, but on a communal road, obey the law.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 10, 2018 10:45:14 GMT
You don't understand. We have traffic cameras down here. They are not reasonable like a police person would be. They are only set up to raise money. I do understand. So what if traffic cameras are there to raise money? It's better that the law-breakers pay more to the upkeep of the road. I reject this lefty supposed argument (which we have in the UK) that speed cameras are wrong because they raise money. This is the the dumbest end of the claim to human rights argument. I am glad we have speed cameras and I am glad that they raise money. You can drive as fast as you want on your own private road, but on a communal road, obey the law. There is nothing wrong with raising money. I was in support of the traffic cameras when they were first proposed. But the way they have been implemented does not make the streets safer. It actually makes them more dangerous. Shortening the yellow lights to the point where drivers only have three choices --- slamming on their brakes in a dangerous manner and risking a rear end collision. Or driving through the intersection at a safe speed and getting a ticket. Or speeding up, attempting to escape a ticket and ending up with two --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the light turns red. And a second for speeding.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Feb 10, 2018 13:47:29 GMT
There is nothing wrong with raising money. I was in support of the traffic cameras when they were first proposed. But the way they have been implemented does not make the streets safer. It actually makes them more dangerous. Shortening the yellow lights to the point where drivers only have three choices --- slamming on their brakes in a dangerous manner and risking a rear end collision. Or driving through the intersection at a safe speed and getting a ticket. Or speeding up, attempting to escape a ticket and ending up with two --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the light turns red. And a second for speeding. Sounds like we have different use cases here. We have red light cameras (catches cars going through a red light), but no-one speeds up to get through it. Not worth it. The speed cameras we have are becoming more and more average speed cameras, i.e. they don't just measure your speed at a single point, they measure your average speed across a distance by taking two pictures of you. One here, and another two hundred yards down the road. We also have cameras looking at bus lanes, even on the back of buses. There are also cameras tracking vehicles entering central London. If you don;t pay your congestion charge by the end of that day, you get an £80 fine.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 10, 2018 18:42:04 GMT
There is nothing wrong with raising money. I was in support of the traffic cameras when they were first proposed. But the way they have been implemented does not make the streets safer. It actually makes them more dangerous. Shortening the yellow lights to the point where drivers only have three choices --- slamming on their brakes in a dangerous manner and risking a rear end collision. Or driving through the intersection at a safe speed and getting a ticket. Or speeding up, attempting to escape a ticket and ending up with two --- one for failure to clear the intersection before the light turns red. And a second for speeding. Sounds like we have different use cases here. We have red light cameras (catches cars going through a red light), but no-one speeds up to get through it. Not worth it. The speed cameras we have are becoming more and more average speed cameras, i.e. they don't just measure your speed at a single point, they measure your average speed across a distance by taking two pictures of you. One here, and another two hundred yards down the road. We also have cameras looking at bus lanes, even on the back of buses. There are also cameras tracking vehicles entering central London. If you don;t pay your congestion charge by the end of that day, you get an £80 fine. There is definitely a way to use them affectly. To make the streets safer. And punish bad drivers. But they are not doing that down here. They are trying to maximize profit. And as a result, making the streets more dangerous.
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