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Post by mikemonger on Apr 28, 2024 18:58:52 GMT
Because they're in control of Gaza it's not an independent nation. They're just starving an ethnic minority in an effort to try and force them to leave. No we do not control Gaza. There hasn't been an Israeli there for 19 years if you don't count a couple of very unsuccessful attempts to teach HAMAS a lesson and the kidnapped victims right now. They have a border with Egypt, plenty of Gazans have several passports and they travel the world more than most Arabs. If you didn't control Gaza you wouldn't be able to essentially unilaterally veto it being declared a state.
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Post by cts1 on Apr 28, 2024 19:07:52 GMT
No we do not control Gaza. There hasn't been an Israeli there for 19 years if you don't count a couple of very unsuccessful attempts to teach HAMAS a lesson and the kidnapped victims right now. They have a border with Egypt, plenty of Gazans have several passports and they travel the world more than most Arabs. If Israel has no control over Gaza then they wouldn't have been able to impose a blockade several times. This is one of the most inexplicable arguments, ever. The Union threw up a naval blockade against the Confederates in 1861, precisely because the Union did not control the entirety of the CSA.
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Post by ayatollah on Apr 28, 2024 19:09:45 GMT
If Israel has no control over Gaza then they wouldn't have been able to impose a blockade several times. This is one of the most inexplicable arguments, ever. The Union threw up a naval blockade against the Confederates in 1861, precisely because the Union did not control the entirety of the CSA. So Gaza is an independent nation?
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Post by marsatax on Apr 28, 2024 19:10:33 GMT
No we do not control Gaza. There hasn't been an Israeli there for 19 years if you don't count a couple of very unsuccessful attempts to teach HAMAS a lesson and the kidnapped victims right now. They have a border with Egypt, plenty of Gazans have several passports and they travel the world more than most Arabs. If Israel has no control over Gaza then they wouldn't have been able to impose a blockade several times. If Israel DID have control over Gaza, the Palestinians there wouldn't have been able to vote in Hamas, wouldn't have been able to repeatedly blitz Israeli towns with rockets, and wouldn't have been able to launch the October 7 massacre.
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Post by cts1 on Apr 28, 2024 19:12:13 GMT
This is one of the most inexplicable arguments, ever. The Union threw up a naval blockade against the Confederates in 1861, precisely because the Union did not control the entirety of the CSA. So Gaza is an independent nation? De facto or de jure?
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on Apr 28, 2024 19:26:50 GMT
How about we just ask them to stop killing kids? Hamas killed hundreds of Jewish kids, and has promised to kill more. How should Israel deal with that? By not oppressing the whole population of 2 million in a prison. Hamas tried for several years to be peaceful but that was rejected because Israel only wants to use force to take over all of Palestine.
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Post by marsatax on Apr 28, 2024 19:42:58 GMT
Hamas killed hundreds of Jewish kids, and has promised to kill more. How should Israel deal with that? By not oppressing the whole population of 2 million in a prison. Hamas tried for several years to be peaceful but that was rejected because Israel only wants to use force to take over all of Palestine. Lies. Hamas very brilliantly lulled Israelis into thinking that a "Don't bother us and we won't bother you" policy was working. Israelis had a rude awakening on October 7. I'm surprised you don't praise Hamas to the heavens for that. After all, they are an ally of the regime you love (Iran's mullahs).
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Post by damngumby on Apr 28, 2024 20:14:34 GMT
Hamas killed hundreds of Jewish kids, and has promised to kill more. How should Israel deal with that? By not oppressing the whole population of 2 million in a prison. Hamas tried for several years to be peaceful but that was rejected because Israel only wants to use force to take over all of Palestine. What’s the point of outright lying? Just to get a rise out of the Jews on this forum?
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Post by primethefirst on Apr 28, 2024 20:19:45 GMT
If they see women and children as enemy soldiers--then it means no peace is ever possible. It will never be solved.
The question really is whether Israel can maintain the technological edge--it seems to me with Iran's recent display--it was telling Israel that it can specifically target anything in Israel if it wants. The question is does Israel understand what that means.
I am not sure it does.
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on Apr 28, 2024 20:42:50 GMT
By not oppressing the whole population of 2 million in a prison. Hamas tried for several years to be peaceful but that was rejected because Israel only wants to use force to take over all of Palestine. What’s the point of outright lying? Just to get a rise out of the Jews on this forum? Marsatax knows the truth. You dont obviously. Hamas won the only election Israel permitted the Palestinians, on a platform of reducing Fatahs corruption and restarting Fatahs failed peace negotiations. Fatah then expelled Hamas from the west bank but they took over the Gaza government. Hamas changed theirboriginal constitution from their original Muslim Brotherhood one that called forbdestruction of Israel, and tried for several years to stop rocket attacks by Islamic Jihad, PFLP and others. While criticising Hamas for their brutality in suppressing rockets, Israel blamed Hamas for all rocket attacks. Even in 2008 attacking the Gaza police force directly. Israel panicked in the 2010s when sanctions prevented Iran from funding the Hamas government and got Qatar and Saudi Arabia to take over till Iran could renew funding. Israel knew Iranian funding was never primarily weapons but schools, hospitals, power, rebuilding which Israel happily destroyed regularly to try to bankrupt Iran.
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Post by theBROKEdontrump on Apr 28, 2024 20:49:46 GMT
Who is telling them this?
There seems to be no shortage of countries and private organizations ready to give aid.
Israel did not start this war. In fact, they should be demanding restitution be paid to all the victims of the 10/7 attacks, but of course, they probably won’t because of the public image of already well off bougie Israelis getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash payments when innocent Palestinians are living in hand to mouth in tents….
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Post by damngumby on Apr 28, 2024 20:52:48 GMT
If they see women and children as enemy soldiers--then it means no peace is ever possible. It will never be solved. The question really is whether Israel can maintain the technological edge--it seems to me with Iran's recent display--it was telling Israel that it can specifically target anything in Israel if it wants. The question is does Israel understand what that means. I am not sure it does. Once upon a time, I would be surprised when someone made multiple points and somehow managed to get every single thing wrong. Not any more.
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Post by damngumby on Apr 28, 2024 20:58:38 GMT
What’s the point of outright lying? Just to get a rise out of the Jews on this forum? Marsatax knows the truth. You dont obviously. Hamas won the only election Israel permitted the Palestinians, on a platform of reducing Fatahs corruption and restarting Fatahs failed peace negotiations. Fatah then expelled Hamas from the west bank but they took over the Gaza government. Hamas changed theirboriginal constitution from their original Muslim Brotherhood one that called forbdestruction of Israel, and tried for several years to stop rocket attacks by Islamic Jihad, PFLP and others. While criticising Hamas for their brutality in suppressing rockets, Israel blamed Hamas for all rocket attacks. Even in 2008 attacking the Gaza police force directly. Israel panicked in the 2010s when sanctions prevented Iran from funding the Hamas government and got Qatar and Saudi Arabia to take over till Iran could renew funding. Israel knew Iranian funding was never primarily weapons but schools, hospitals, power, rebuilding which Israel happily destroyed regularly to try to bankrupt Iran. Ah. Hamas was trying to stop the rocket attacks, but were powerless to do so. You Hamas supporter will say anything.
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Post by marsatax on Apr 28, 2024 21:12:49 GMT
What’s the point of outright lying? Just to get a rise out of the Jews on this forum? Marsatax knows the truth. You dont obviously. Hamas won the only election Israel permitted the Palestinians, on a platform of reducing Fatahs corruption and restarting Fatahs failed peace negotiations. Fatah then expelled Hamas from the west bank but they took over the Gaza government. Hamas changed theirboriginal constitution from their original Muslim Brotherhood one that called forbdestruction of Israel, and tried for several years to stop rocket attacks by Islamic Jihad, PFLP and others. While criticising Hamas for their brutality in suppressing rockets, Israel blamed Hamas for all rocket attacks. Even in 2008 attacking the Gaza police force directly. Israel panicked in the 2010s when sanctions prevented Iran from funding the Hamas government and got Qatar and Saudi Arabia to take over till Iran could renew funding. Israel knew Iranian funding was never primarily weapons but schools, hospitals, power, rebuilding which Israel happily destroyed regularly to try to bankrupt Iran. The new Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel, just as the old one does. www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-fullExcerpts 1. Its [Hamas’s] goal is to liberate Palestine and confront the Zionist project. 2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity. 17. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine. 18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination. 19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse. 20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. 27. A real state of Palestine is a state that has been liberated. There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.
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Post by mr_self on Apr 28, 2024 21:27:45 GMT
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