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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 20:17:48 GMT
I do not agree. In the old days, children who were raised on a farm, slaughtered the farm animals for food and money. And they did it with no sympathy for the animals. Because that was the way they were taught. Now, more and more, children are raised by parents and a society that teaches animal rights. They object to animal cruelty. And most could not and would not slaughter any animal unless absolutely necessary. Why? Because that was how they were taught. Many boys are raised in households where they are not taught sympathy or empathy for others. If they are taught to be violent, they will be. Yes, some kids will have an innate objection to violence. And an innate propensity for empathy and sympathy. But many will not. You say around 18. Well, you said the boys you are talking about were only ten. So, no telling if their psychopathy was innate or conditional (result of their environment, upbringing). You can rationalise killing animals for food. You can't rationalise killing people. This is a non-analogy. As for conditional, I don't believe you can condition someone to kill unless they are genetically pre-formed to be accepting of those messages. They are killers in waiting through genetics. Either they take the step themselves or their environment pushes them. Either way, you need the psychopathic genetics to be present in the first place or they will reject the conditioning. I disagree. Symphony, empathy, morals and ethics are taught and learned. If a child is raised in an immoral environment, there is a great chance they will behave immorally. Most criminals were raised by criminals. And/or mentored by criminals. To a large extent, criminal behavior is learned. Just like moral and ethical behavior. And sympathy and empathy. |
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Post by slowcomingwarbird on Jan 5, 2018 20:24:57 GMT
So why did they release Jon Venables after only 8 years?
Shouldn't a crime like that result in a minimum sentence of 20 years in prison?
Usually such cases of insanity only kick in at the age of 30, it is very unusual for a 10 year old to be that crazy.
Too bad there isn't a work up of environmental factors that create serial killers so that steps can be taken to prevent it.
Such as the environmental work up for what causes asthma in children.
This is such a touchy topic that has the potential to go all sorts of really ugly places.
It is still questionable how much the parents are to blame, and what share of responsibility
the rest of society has for helping to create the conditions which resulted in those crimes in the first place.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 20:36:33 GMT
So why did they release Jon Venables after only 8 years? Shouldn't a crime like that result in a minimum sentence of 20 years in prison? Usually such cases of insanity only kick in at the age of 30, it is very unusual for a 10 year old to be that crazy. Too bad there isn't a work up of environmental factors that create serial killers so that steps can be taken to prevent it. Such as the environmental work up for what causes asthma in children. This is such a touchy topic that has the potential to go all sorts of really ugly places. It is still questionable how much the parents are to blame, and what share of responsibility the rest of society has for helping to create the conditions which resulted in those crimes in the first place. I think it is pretty obvious. Healthy parents that raise their children in healthy ways, usually produce healthy children. Immoral, unethical, ignorant, and psychologically unhealthy parents that raise their children in psychologically and socially unhealthy ways, usually produce psychologically unhealthy children. |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 20:37:19 GMT
I disagree. Symphony, empathy, morals and ethics are taught and learned. If a child is raised in an immoral environment, there is a great chance they will behave immorally. Most criminals were raised by criminals. And/or mentored by criminals. To a large extent, criminal behavior is learned. Just like moral and ethical behavior. And sympathy and empathy. Immoral behaviour, sure. Criminal behaviour, sure. But not murderous psychopathic behaviour. Not sure why we are even debating this - it is proven that psychopaths have brains that are developed differently - they lack the frontal lobes that deal with empathy. You can't ignore the behaviour inhibiting signals from those lobes if you have them. If you don;t have them, you are susceptible to psychopathic behaviour. You could find your own way to that behaviour or your environment could push you, but you must be devoid of those lobes in order to behave in a psychopathic manner. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 20:40:43 GMT
I disagree. Symphony, empathy, morals and ethics are taught and learned. If a child is raised in an immoral environment, there is a great chance they will behave immorally. Most criminals were raised by criminals. And/or mentored by criminals. To a large extent, criminal behavior is learned. Just like moral and ethical behavior. And sympathy and empathy. Immoral behaviour, sure. Criminal behaviour, sure. But not murderous psychopathic behaviour. Not sure why we are even debating this - it is proven that psychopaths have brains that are developed differently - they lack the frontal lobes that deal with empathy. You can't ignore the behaviour inhibiting signals from those lobes if you have them. If you don;t have them, you are susceptible to psychopathic behaviour. You could find your own way to that behaviour or your environment could push you, but you must be devoid of those lobes in order to behave in a psychopathic manner. Murderous, psychopathic behavior is criminal and immoral behavior. There is no proof that environment cannot produce psychopathy. |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 20:47:51 GMT
Murderous, psychopathic behavior is criminal and immoral behavior. There is no proof that environment cannot produce psychopathy. 1. Yes, but the point is it is at the extreme end of the spectrum, that is my point. 2. You could never, ever prove that. It is logically impossible. You need to prove that it can. Is there proof of that? |
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Post by slowcomingwarbird on Jan 5, 2018 21:10:49 GMT
So why did they release Jon Venables after only 8 years? Shouldn't a crime like that result in a minimum sentence of 20 years in prison? Usually such cases of insanity only kick in at the age of 30, it is very unusual for a 10 year old to be that crazy. Too bad there isn't a work up of environmental factors that create serial killers so that steps can be taken to prevent it. Such as the environmental work up for what causes asthma in children. This is such a touchy topic that has the potential to go all sorts of really ugly places. It is still questionable how much the parents are to blame, and what share of responsibility the rest of society has for helping to create the conditions which resulted in those crimes in the first place. I think it is pretty obvious. Healthy parents that raise their children in healthy ways, usually produce healthy children. Immoral, unethical, ignorant, and psychologically unhealthy parents that raise their children in psychologically and socially unhealthy ways, usually produce psychologically unhealthy children. The trend has been more towards using the television or the internet as a means of keeping children occupied without the parents giving their children any real instruction. That together with the disturbing non-educational content of television for the past decade it is little wonder why Millennials and their kids are so messed up. They seem to get that sort of aggressive confrontational behavior from watching talk shows. It is like nobody ever taught them that running up on strangers in the street and demanding to know their political and or religious alignment is not socially acceptable behavior. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 21:14:42 GMT
Murderous, psychopathic behavior is criminal and immoral behavior. There is no proof that environment cannot produce psychopathy. 1. Yes, but the point is it is at the extreme end of the spectrum, that is my point. 2. You could never, ever prove that. It is logically impossible. You need to prove that it can. Is there proof of that? You need to be more clear here Flying Monkeys. What is it? What spectrum? The violent behavior spectrum? |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 21:15:51 GMT
I think it is pretty obvious. Healthy parents that raise their children in healthy ways, usually produce healthy children. Immoral, unethical, ignorant, and psychologically unhealthy parents that raise their children in psychologically and socially unhealthy ways, usually produce psychologically unhealthy children. The trend has been more towards using the television or the internet as a means of keeping children occupied without the parents giving their children any real instruction. That together with the disturbing non-educational content of television for the past decade it is little wonder why Millennials and their kids are so messed up. They seem to get that sort of aggressive confrontational behavior from watching talk shows. It is like nobody ever taught them that running up on strangers in the street and demanding to know their political and or religious alignment is not socially acceptable behavior. I think you are partially correct. |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 21:18:30 GMT
You need to be more clear here Flying Monkeys. What is it? What spectrum? The violent behavior spectrum? The behaviour spectrum. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 21:38:48 GMT
You need to be more clear here Flying Monkeys. What is it? What spectrum? The violent behavior spectrum? The behaviour spectrum. You are saying psychopathic behavior is at the extreme end of the behavior spectrum? Not according to Wikipedia; "Psychopathy, sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits."There is psychopathic behavior at all points of the behavioral spectrum. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 21:49:52 GMT
You are saying psychopathic behavior is at the extreme end of the behavior spectrum? Not according to Wikipedia; "Psychopathy, sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits."There is psychopathic behavior at all points of the behavioral spectrum. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PsychopathyOkay, so you asked two questions and I only answered one. "It" is murderous, psychopathic behaviour. The spectrum is the behaviour spectrum. Murderous, psychopathic behaviour is at the far end of the behaviour spectrum. I was contrasting your point about general immoral/criminal behaviour with murderous psychopathic behaviour. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 21:55:54 GMT
You are saying psychopathic behavior is at the extreme end of the behavior spectrum? Not according to Wikipedia; "Psychopathy, sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits."There is psychopathic behavior at all points of the behavioral spectrum. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PsychopathyOkay, so you asked two questions and I only answered one. "It" is murderous, psychopathic behaviour. The spectrum is the behaviour spectrum. Murderous, psychopathic behaviour is at the far end of the behaviour spectrum. I was contrasting your point about general immoral/criminal behaviour with murderous psychopathic behaviour. I agree with that. But I do not agree all psychopaths are innately genetically malformed. I think approximately half of psychopathic behavior is conditional. And it is hard to distinguish between the two. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 22:07:38 GMT
You are saying psychopathic behavior is at the extreme end of the behavior spectrum? Not according to Wikipedia; "Psychopathy, sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits."There is psychopathic behavior at all points of the behavioral spectrum. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PsychopathyOkay, so you asked two questions and I only answered one. "It" is murderous, psychopathic behaviour. The spectrum is the behaviour spectrum. Murderous, psychopathic behaviour is at the far end of the behaviour spectrum. I was contrasting your point about general immoral/criminal behaviour with murderous psychopathic behaviour. This is my second reply to this post. (See above for my first reply.) I may combine the two. I see everyday extreme inconsiderate behavior from perfect strangers and people I know. I see this repeated daily. Sometimes in spite of complaints from others. This behavior fits the description of psychopathic behavior. All of these offenders are not mentally impaired genetically. Their psychopathy is conditional. It is not violent or murderous. But psychopathic none the less. One cannot help but wonder how many of these offenders would stop their inconsiderate and selfish behavior before it gets violent. Many violent criminals have no sympathy or empathy for others. And they feel their selfish desires justify their criminal acts. There is little difference between violent criminals and general repetitive lack of consideration and selfishness. It is only a matter of degree. But the motives are the same. |
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 22:20:19 GMT
But I do not agree all psychopaths are innately genetically malformed. Recent studies say otherwise. I think approximately half of psychopathic behavior is conditional. Half of them may have been introduced to their psychopathy by conditions, half may have found it themselves. But the show that a psychopath has certain brain structures hat are a prerequisite, i.e conditions alone won't create such behaviour. |
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