|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 18:55:46 GMT
Jon Venables, one of the killers of toddler James Bulger nearly 25 years ago, has been charged over indecent images of children.
The 35-year-old, who served eight years for the murder of James, aged two, in 1993, was recalled to prison last year.
He and Robert Thompson abducted, tortured and killed the toddler in Liverpool when they were both aged 10.
And in 2010, Venables was sent back to jail for two years after pleading guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography and breaching his parole conditions by visiting Merseyside.
He was released again in 2013 with a second new identity.
When news of the 35-year-old's latest arrest emerged last year, James's mother Denise Fergus said: "Venables has now proved beyond any doubt what a vile, perverted psychopath he has always been."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-42582561I don't believe that a 10 year old makes a 'lifestyle' decision to be a psychopath. Children just do what comes naturally. Something in his brain-wiring was driving him and that something clearly still is with these repeat offences. This brings us to two questions: 1. If the problem is with the wiring, what hope is there of rehabilitation? None, I would say. 2. Will religious traditionalists extrapolate from this and maybe start to understand that things like homosexuality are not choices, but also determined by the innate wiring? Probably not because this would mean re-evaluating their beliefs in their god.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:02:20 GMT
My response to the homosexuality thing is to ask them if they themselves could have sex with their same gender. If the is no, then they just proved the opposing argument.
Part of me wishes I could be gay. It would make my love life less complicated.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 19:10:02 GMT
Jon Venables, one of the killers of toddler James Bulger nearly 25 years ago, has been charged over indecent images of children.
The 35-year-old, who served eight years for the murder of James, aged two, in 1993, was recalled to prison last year.
He and Robert Thompson abducted, tortured and killed the toddler in Liverpool when they were both aged 10.
And in 2010, Venables was sent back to jail for two years after pleading guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography and breaching his parole conditions by visiting Merseyside.
He was released again in 2013 with a second new identity.
When news of the 35-year-old's latest arrest emerged last year, James's mother Denise Fergus said: "Venables has now proved beyond any doubt what a vile, perverted psychopath he has always been."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-42582561I don't believe that a 10 year old makes a 'lifestyle' decision to be a psychopath. Children just do what comes naturally. Something in his brain-wiring was driving him and that something clearly still is with these repeat offences. This brings us to two questions: 1. If the problem is with the wiring, what hope is there of rehabilitation? None, I would say. 2. Will religious types extrapolate from this and maybe start to understand that things like homosexuality are not choices, but also determined by the innate wiring? Probably not because this would mean re-evaluating their beliefs in their god. Don't over generalize. I am a religious type. I believe homosexuality is not a choice. But genetic. There are many religious types that feel the same way I do. |
|
|
|
Post by bartlesby on Jan 5, 2018 19:14:16 GMT
Jon Venables, one of the killers of toddler James Bulger nearly 25 years ago, has been charged over indecent images of children.
The 35-year-old, who served eight years for the murder of James, aged two, in 1993, was recalled to prison last year.
He and Robert Thompson abducted, tortured and killed the toddler in Liverpool when they were both aged 10.
And in 2010, Venables was sent back to jail for two years after pleading guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography and breaching his parole conditions by visiting Merseyside.
He was released again in 2013 with a second new identity.
When news of the 35-year-old's latest arrest emerged last year, James's mother Denise Fergus said: "Venables has now proved beyond any doubt what a vile, perverted psychopath he has always been."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-42582561I don't believe that a 10 year old makes a 'lifestyle' decision to be a psychopath. Children just do what comes naturally. Something in his brain-wiring was driving him and that something clearly still is with these repeat offences. This brings us to two questions: 1. If the problem is with the wiring, what hope is there of rehabilitation? None, I would say. 2. Will religious types extrapolate from this and maybe start to understand that things like homosexuality are not choices, but also determined by the innate wiring? Probably not because this would mean re-evaluating their beliefs in their god. Don't over generalize. I am a religious type. I believe homosexuality is not a choice. But genetic. There are many religious types that feel the same way I do. Do you believe it's a sin? If so, how do you rationalize that if you also believe it's not a choice? |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:15:00 GMT
Don't over generalize. I am a religious type. I believe homosexuality is not a choice. But genetic. There are many religious types that feel the same way I do. Fair enough. Have to say, you're the first one I've come across. I'll update the OP though. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 19:18:22 GMT
When I was about eight, me and my mate dropped massive stones off a bridge that cars were going under. It never occurred to us that anyone could die because that just isn't something you're conscious of at that age.
I'd wager he was introduced to kiddie porn in prison.
The other one seems to have gone on to be normal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:20:35 GMT
My response to the homosexuality thing is to ask them if they themselves could have sex with their same gender. If the is no, then they just proved the opposing argument. I don't understand. If they say no, that proves it is a choice? |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 19:23:42 GMT
Don't over generalize. I am a religious type. I believe homosexuality is not a choice. But genetic. There are many religious types that feel the same way I do. Do you believe it's a sin? If so, how do you rationalize that if you also believe it's not a choice? No, I don't believe it is a sin. No more than being short, tall, male or female. |
|
|
|
Post by bartlesby on Jan 5, 2018 19:24:22 GMT
Do you believe it's a sin? If so, how do you rationalize that if you also believe it's not a choice? No, I don't believe it is a sin. No more than being short, tall, male or female. Fair enough. Just curious. :) |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:31:37 GMT
When I was about eight, me and my mate dropped massive stones off a bridge that cars were going under. It never occurred to us that anyone could die because that just isn't something you're conscious of at that age. I'd wager he was introduced to kiddie porn in prison. The other one seems to have gone on to be normal. Age 8 (or 10 in their cases) - agree. However, what's telling here is this. When the child became lifeless, most would have got scared and run away. These two didn't. They put the body on the railway line. That shows an understanding of what has happened and a disregard for it. Kiddie porn in prison - probably. But his embracing of it is what is telling - enjoying the suffering of children. Most people would be revolted by it - he was/is wired to enjoy it. The other one - maybe, or is just better at covering his tracks. |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 19:34:52 GMT
When I was about eight, me and my mate dropped massive stones off a bridge that cars were going under. It never occurred to us that anyone could die because that just isn't something you're conscious of at that age. I'd wager he was introduced to kiddie porn in prison. The other one seems to have gone on to be normal. Age 8 (or 10 in their cases) - agree. However, what's telling here is this. When the child became lifeless, most would have got scared and run away. These two didn't. They put the body on the railway line. That shows an understanding of what has happened and a disregard for it. Kiddie porn in prison - probably. But his embracing of it is what is telling - enjoying the suffering of children. Most people would be revolted by it - he was/is wired to enjoy it. The other one - maybe, or is just better at covering his tracks. It is hard to tell the difference between a child who is a violent psychopath. And a child that was raised by a violent psychopath. One is innate. The other is taught. |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:34:57 GMT
No, I don't believe it is a sin. No more than being short, tall, male or female. That is so refreshing to hear from a religious person. You have taught me something today and I appreciate that. |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:37:20 GMT
It is hard to tell the difference between a child who is a violent psychopath. And a child that was raised by a violent psychopath. One is innate. The other is taught. I'm not sure if you can be taught to do things that your wiring tells you is vile. Seriously, I just don't know. I'd agree up to a certain age that a child will copy a parent, but around 18 they start to think for themselves and will examine if they really agree with that behaviour and I would say (hope) they will reject it. |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2018 19:46:11 GMT
It is hard to tell the difference between a child who is a violent psychopath. And a child that was raised by a violent psychopath. One is innate. The other is taught. I'm not sure if you can be taught to do things that your wiring tells you is vile. Seriously, I just don't know. I'd agree up to a certain age that a child will copy a parent, but around 18 they start to think for themselves and will examine if they really agree with that behaviour and I would say (hope) they will reject it. I do not agree. In the old days, children who were raised on a farm, slaughtered the farm animals for food and money. And they did it with no sympathy for the animals. Because that was the way they were taught. Now, more and more, children are raised by parents and a society that teaches animal rights. They object to animal cruelty. And most could not and would not slaughter any animal unless absolutely necessary. Why? Because that was how they were taught. Many boys are raised in households where they are not taught sympathy or empathy for others. If they are taught to be violent, they will be. Yes, some kids will have an innate objection to violence. And an innate propensity for empathy and sympathy. But many will not. You say around 18. Well, you said the boys you are talking about were only ten. So, no telling if their psychopathy was innate or conditional (result of their environment, upbringing). |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 5, 2018 19:53:47 GMT
I do not agree. In the old days, children who were raised on a farm, slaughtered the farm animals for food and money. And they did it with no sympathy for the animals. Because that was the way they were taught. Now, more and more, children are raised by parents and a society that teaches animal rights. They object to animal cruelty. And most could not and would not slaughter any animal unless absolutely necessary. Why? Because that was how they were taught. Many boys are raised in households where they are not taught sympathy or empathy for others. If they are taught to be violent, they will be. Yes, some kids will have an innate objection to violence. And an innate propensity for empathy and sympathy. But many will not. You say around 18. Well, you said the boys you are talking about were only ten. So, no telling if their psychopathy was innate or conditional (result of their environment, upbringing). You can rationalise killing animals for food. You can't rationalise killing people. This is a non-analogy. As for conditional, I don't believe you can condition someone to kill unless they are genetically pre-formed to be accepting of those messages. They are killers in waiting through genetics. Either they take the step themselves or their environment pushes them. Either way, you need the psychopathic genetics to be present in the first place or they will reject the conditioning. |
|
