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Post by Flying Monkeys on Apr 25, 2023 18:30:37 GMT
and the other important Biographer of Brexit is Gerhard Schnyder, Do you really think that germans are going to provide an objective view of Brexit? They hate the fact that we stuck our fingers up at them - again - and will do anything they can to undermine it, regardless of what happens. Save yourself a load of time (and us - please) and just post "another german thinks predictably".
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Post by yggdrasil on Apr 26, 2023 8:34:30 GMT
The problem I have found with Brexit discussions is that rather than accepting there is right and wrong in Brexit people run to their ideological corner and pitch up only with articles or opinion that back that belief up. Brexit was such a huge thing it deserved to be treated with the nuance it deserved rather than sweeping beliefs it was either damn right or bloody wrong. ... The UK did profit immensly, but the British media didn't focus on that. Britain weighs the costs and benefits of EU membershipwww.france24.com/en/20160224-brexit-numbers-costs-benefits-britain-eu-membership-referendum the CBI said that!
Regarding Germany: there is a strange paradox - on the one side Brexiters claimed that the UK couldn't thrive as much in the EU because of Germany dominating the EU. There has to be a sort of inferiority complex behind it bc the EU was in fact dominated by the 3 biggies (France, Germany and the UK) On the other side they claim that outside of the EU the UK is one of the big global forces, that can thrive as "Britannia Unchained". The destiny of the authors (Kwarteng, Truss, Raab, Patel, ... ) show the hybris behind that attitude. So You have a strange overlay of hybris and inferiority complex at the same time. Why the confidence that you can go alone on the world stage if You are convinced of being suppressed in the far smaller EU? One has to have a high ambiguity resilience to be able to integrate both into Your model how the world works. No, let's be clear. We couldn't thrive as much as we are a "services" nation and Germany is a big "export" nation. Sod all to do with vague terms like "inferiority". We were a net contributor and Germany makes about 90 billion a year out of the EU? You have an extremely selective view on the matter based on your own nation's advantage being in the organisation. It works for Germany, fine, but you can't expect others who lose money to carry on indefinitely. Your whole viewpoint is hardly unbiased.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Apr 26, 2023 12:50:36 GMT
and the other important Biographer of Brexit is Gerhard Schnyder, Do you really think that germans are going to provide an objective view of Brexit? They hate the fact that we stuck our fingers up at them - again - and will do anything they can to undermine it, regardless of what happens. Save yourself a load of time (and us - please) and just post "another german thinks predictably". Gerhard Schnyder is not a German, he is a British-Swiss dual national. He is neither anti-EU nor pro-EU "per se". Though being an academic working in the UK he still is looking for all kind of sources in several languages, also and especially from the continent. He is extremely knowable about the struggles between the EU and 3rd countries bc Switzerland also is a 3rd country. Chris Grey was and still is the most valuable author for the Brexit thread but Gerhard Schnyder delivers this additional look from the outside that Grey cannot have because he is already overwhelmed by the navel gazing British media inside. Or to put it more simple: Gerhard Schnyder is no German jerking off to Brit poverty porn. 2 years ago, I gave a link to one of his best reports, an inside report of the situation of Switzerland regarding towards the EU, with some additional implications for the UK! BIT 31 May 2021www.gerhardschnyder.com/brexit-impact-tracker/2021/5/31/brexit-impact-tracker-30-may-2021-the-will-of-the-peoplewhen-it-suits-us-a-swiss-bank-holiday-specialYou don't find stuff like that in normal British media. It's quality like this why I made Schnyder the 2nd most important ingredient in the Brexit thread.
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Post by mowlick on Apr 26, 2023 13:33:32 GMT
and the other important Biographer of Brexit is Gerhard Schnyder, Do you really think that germans are going to provide an objective view of Brexit? They hate the fact that we stuck our fingers up at them - again - and will do anything they can to undermine it, regardless of what happens. Save yourself a load of time (and us - please) and just post "another german thinks predictably". Nobbi is a German. It isn't his fault, but there you are.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Apr 27, 2023 12:41:50 GMT
No, let's be clear. We couldn't thrive as much as we are a "services" nation and Germany is a big "export" nation. Sod all to do with vague terms like "inferiority". We were a net contributor and Germany makes about 90 billion a year out of the EU? You have an extremely selective view on the matter based on your own nation's advantage being in the organisation. It works for Germany, fine, but you can't expect others who lose money to carry on indefinitely. Your whole viewpoint is hardly unbiased. I have a lot of material that shows evidence that the UK benefitted from the membership. But as everything I will present to You You will see as "biased" I give you official govt. paper House of Commons Library In brief: UK-EU economic relations commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06091/ these regulations do have their positive sides (and financial benefits!) #1 these regulations didn't come out of the blue. Industry and business had taken part in shaping these frameworks. Every EU member had veto rights, so they can't be that bad. #2 ask British Chemical Industry what they think of having to support a 2nd framework next to the REACH framework. REACH made them both competitive worldwide and having a say in one of the 2 or 3 global standards. (I wrote about that in the original Brexit thread) REACH made them rule makers instead of rule takers.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Apr 27, 2023 21:25:04 GMT
For those who are interested in concrete stuff - the first draft of the the documentation for the new border operating model is available now, Edwyn Hayward gives the link to the source
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Apr 27, 2023 22:23:04 GMT
Brexiteers would rather wreck the British economy -- possibly resulting in the eventual dissolution of the Union itself -- rather than simply admit, "OK, we were mistaken. The assumptions we made were way off the mark. We were wrong."
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Apr 28, 2023 4:24:02 GMT
Brexiteers would rather wreck the British economy -- possibly resulting in the eventual dissolution of the Union itself -- rather than simply admit, "OK, we were mistaken. The assumptions we made were way off the mark. We were wrong." Remainers would rather sabotage the British economy -- possibly resulting in the eventual dissolution of the Union itself -- rather than simply admit, "OK, we were mistaken. The assumptions about an imminent economic disaster were way off the mark. We were wrong."
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Apr 28, 2023 7:26:55 GMT
The problem I have found with Brexit discussions is that rather than accepting there is right and wrong in Brexit people run to their ideological corner and pitch up only with articles or opinion that back that belief up. Brexit was such a huge thing it deserved to be treated with the nuance it deserved rather than sweeping beliefs it was either damn right or bloody wrong. Anyone German being anti-Brexit is rather mystifying as surely it gives them even more scope to be the biggest financial winner from being in the EU. If the UK had been making the obscene amount of money Germany does from the EU, I have no doubt we'd still be in it. Personally I'd rather the money went on British concerns than help prop up the German economy. Ha, take that notoriousnobbi - even the lefties on here think the EU is a shit idea! How much better was Western Europe before the EU?
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Apr 28, 2023 8:43:32 GMT
Ha, take that notoriousnobbi - even the lefties on here think the EU is a shit idea! How much better was Western Europe before the EU? When the EU was a trade bloc, it was fine. It was started to make trading in steel or coal a lot easier, and that was fine. Then it expanded to other goods like fish and brassieres and stuff, and still all good. Then, zee chermans got too big for zer boots unt decided it vos nezzerzery to impose zer laws unt cultural beliefs on zer rest ov us unt it all turned to zer scheisse.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Apr 28, 2023 16:01:49 GMT
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on May 1, 2023 15:54:21 GMT
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Post by Flying Monkeys on May 1, 2023 17:59:16 GMT
How many more people would have died of covid if we went at the EU's snail's pace getting vaccines?
Of course, that doesn't matter because we're £200 each worse off.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 1, 2023 20:09:58 GMT
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Post by notoriousnobbi on May 1, 2023 20:20:01 GMT
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