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Post by Olaf Plunket on May 13, 2023 13:56:41 GMT
Is there such a thing as "blind faith" in science? Can it be harmful?
Before covid the internet discussion boards were replete with people who were adamant that "faith" was not the right word to use with "science." They complained that we should call it "confidence" in science because confidence has a very different character than faith. They said science was especially "rational" and had the ability to "correct itself."
Covid "proved" or at least seems to strongly indicate two things. One, there is blind faith in science, and two it can be harmful (shut down the economy).
While it might well be true that "science" is rational and subject to constant critical review by experts, that is the "ideal" concept of science. It is what science is "supposed" to be in an ideal sense. It is not necessarily what the real world masses believe is science.
So the question becomes can the masses untrained in science commandeer science and thus deprive it of its ideal qualities?
That is exactly what covid suggests, we might at this point say "proves."
Careful examination of the death toll by qualified statisticians does not indicate a pandemic. If you believe you can dispute that, proceed, I am usually here several hours a day. That is so far anyway, I might get banned for offering "misinformation" or what I call "classes in statistics."
Rather, untrained amateurs took various data items out of context, fueling the panic.
Distributing the blame can be difficult. Shouldn't the "experts" have advised the amateurs to be more responsible? I am surprised at how Fauci conducted himself. I would think a doctor could have done better. He appeared too concerned about Trump to remain clear headed. There were however lots of good citizens, many of them doctors, telling the truth from the very beginning. The people more fond of science than capable of science would not heed them though.
It might be fair to give much blame to the internet. In the early days of the internet many people were excited about the "new and improved" democracy possible with the internet. No more waiting years to vote, just turn on the computers and let the opinions fly. It has become obvious over time though that too many people on the internet speak "out to turn" and outside their fields of expertise. It is basically a monster now that grades its own papers.
Having established that blind faith in science is a severe problem does that mean religious people never make bad choices in the name of their religion? Of course not, there is bad religion in addition to bad science. Lately there is more bad science, but it can be close to a tie.
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Post by Dracula on May 13, 2023 14:03:31 GMT
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Post by Olaf Plunket on May 13, 2023 14:21:37 GMT
To repeat Did you intend to present any data or arguments? Perhaps they were lost by the software somewhere. I cannot see yours.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2023 14:28:19 GMT
If there is something that is dangerous, its blind faith in God/religion.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on May 13, 2023 14:31:57 GMT
Yes and yes.
Some of these sons-of-bitches think they're going to live forever by having their consciousness transferred to a computer. That's the kind of science they have faith in. It isn't ready for implementation yet, so they have to load up on every vaccine that the MSM tells them to and stay alive until the science is ready.
And the science that says XX and XY are different, they throw that out. That's the science they don't like.
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on May 13, 2023 14:32:08 GMT
One might have thought that after three years of dissemination of a large amount of information, much of it incorrect and vast discussions about it, we would be less likely to be regaled with yet another example of misinformation and ignorance.
Lets deal with just one of your moronic statements. Covid is extremely contagious, more than the flu. Until large populations were infected (at least a year) we did not have a clear idea of the death rate, either by age or by reinfection or the vaccinated. It appears from the OP some still don't. The definition of a pandemic is massive infection spread over multiple countries and continents. Only a moron or a CT infected MAGA would dispute that.
BTW, note no mention of science here. The OP suggests not just ignorance of what a pandemic is but also what science is.
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Post by papamihel on May 13, 2023 14:46:28 GMT
Throughout human history many if not most scientists happily collaborated with civil or religious authorities at the expense of scientific integrity. That's just human nature.
Nowadays we live in an age when free expression or unbounded persuit of information are often pure poison to a career in science. Make your own conclusions.
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Post by theBROKEdontrump on May 13, 2023 14:59:07 GMT
If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated. I could not care less personally.
Just don't throw a temper tantrum when you are in the ICU hooked up to oxygen and shouting racial slurs at your Filipino nurse because she won't "make the pain go away..."
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Post by Olaf Plunket on May 13, 2023 15:53:18 GMT
One might have thought that after three years of dissemination of a large amount of information, much of it incorrect and vast discussions about it, we would be less likely to be regaled with yet another example of misinformation and ignorance. Lets deal with just one of your moronic statements. Covid is extremely contagious, more than the flu. Until large populations were infected (at least a year) we did not have a clear idea of the death rate, either by age or by reinfection or the vaccinated. It appears from the OP some still don't. The definition of a pandemic is massive infection spread over multiple countries and continents. Only a moron or a CT infected MAGA would dispute that. BTW, note no mention of science here. The OP suggests not just ignorance of what a pandemic is but also what science is. I'm glad to see you didn't die. I was starting to wonder when you had no answer for this > imdb1.freeforums.net/post/343196You are obviously still dodging the real issue. Where is the death toll that would indicate a pandemic in the United States? You know, 'science" that would indicate a pandemic here, where is that? I do not know where you got the impression I take advice on science from this board. You aren't even politically informed, much less scientifically informed. Have you seen the theories on the death toll in the United States since the 1950s? Very fascinating. In the 50s and 60s it was about 0.96. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s it dropped somewhat dramatically and consistently -- almost straight line consistently. Then in 2009 it leveled off at about 0.81 then from 2013 it began a steep climb that lasted through 2020. Here is the interesting part. It appears likely that advances in technology allowed people to live longer lives, causing the death toll to go down in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Living longer however does not mean living forever and the people who live longer eventually have to die. Everyone dies eventually. So when there is a pause in the development of new technology the death rate must go back up as they eventually die. In 2020 it was very near where it was in the 50s and 60s. Where is your science on that? I realize that is missing a lot of details, but it does make a little sense, at least.
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Post by Olaf Plunket on May 13, 2023 15:56:00 GMT
If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated. I could not care less personally. Just don't throw a temper tantrum when you are in the ICU hooked up to oxygen and shouting racial slurs at your Filipino nurse because she won't "make the pain go away..." I'll try to keep an eye open for people who are no good at science and stay away.
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Post by jammer81386 on May 13, 2023 16:39:11 GMT
The science once supported the miasma theory of the disease. Fortunately people like Louis pasture and Joseph lister didn't have blind faith it in.
Furthermore, it must be noted that science does not determine morality. Thus it is not the answer of all of life's problems.
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Post by Dracula on May 13, 2023 17:00:17 GMT
SuTo repeat Did you intend to present any data or arguments? Perhaps they were lost by the software somewhere. I cannot see yours. Yes, I read your nonsense the first time. It's not any less ridiculous simply because you repeat it. Sure, let's "present the data." We're talking about death toll here, just death from all causes, just a body count. This isn't rocket science. www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/united-states-deaths-spiked-as-covid-19-continued.htmlYou've said that the increase in total deaths from all causes from 2019 to 2020 was "one-sixth of one percent." Total deaths in 2019 (all causes) was: 2,854,838 as shown on census.gov. Total deaths in 2020 (all causes) was: 3.390,029 as shown on census.gov. That's an 18.75% increase from 2019 to 2020. This isn't politics. It's just math. Now then, speaking of "blind faith", which conspiracy website is telling you that those aren't really the total deaths for 2019 or 2020 or which alternative math is telling you that's not an 18.75% increase in total deaths between 2019 and 2020?
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on May 13, 2023 17:48:42 GMT
One might have thought that after three years of dissemination of a large amount of information, much of it incorrect and vast discussions about it, we would be less likely to be regaled with yet another example of misinformation and ignorance. Lets deal with just one of your moronic statements. Covid is extremely contagious, more than the flu. Until large populations were infected (at least a year) we did not have a clear idea of the death rate, either by age or by reinfection or the vaccinated. It appears from the OP some still don't. The definition of a pandemic is massive infection spread over multiple countries and continents. Only a moron or a CT infected MAGA would dispute that. BTW, note no mention of science here. The OP suggests not just ignorance of what a pandemic is but also what science is. I'm glad to see you didn't die. I was starting to wonder when you had no answer for this > imdb1.freeforums.net/post/343196You are obviously still dodging the real issue. Where is the death toll that would indicate a pandemic in the United States? You know, 'science" that would indicate a pandemic here, where is that? I do not know where you got the impression I take advice on science from this board. You aren't even politically informed, much less scientifically informed. Have you seen the theories on the death toll in the United States since the 1950s? Very fascinating. In the 50s and 60s it was about 0.96. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s it dropped somewhat dramatically and consistently -- almost straight line consistently. Then in 2009 it leveled off at about 0.81 then from 2013 it began a steep climb that lasted through 2020. Here is the interesting part. It appears likely that advances in technology allowed people to live longer lives, causing the death toll to go down in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Living longer however does not mean living forever and the people who live longer eventually have to die. Everyone dies eventually. So when there is a pause in the development of new technology the death rate must go back up as they eventually die. In 2020 it was very near where it was in the 50s and 60s. Where is your science on that? I realize that is missing a lot of details, but it does make a little sense, at least. You are right. It only makes a little sense, which in your version of science, right on! However in my version of science, we look for evidence after making hypotheses. For any particular reason for the death rate to drop, it either continues to drop, levels off or rises. If the reason continues the death rate continues at the low rate. Your idea that the death rate rises only happens if the reason for the drop ends, for example if suddenly we no longer used antibiotics. In wombat science we ask for a hypothesis on why the US death rate increased from 2013. It wasnt covid. In olaf science we are free to make wild guesses. Fail. Also in my version of science we start by being careful about word definitions. An epidemic is a regional disease outbreak, meaning physical region like North America, not just the Panhandle or Apalachia. Note no mention of deaths. From the Greek 'pan-' meaning 'all', pandemic means global epidemic, not confined to the USA. Again for you, Fail.
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Post by winstonwolfe on May 13, 2023 19:47:48 GMT
No, it’s “Blinded with science.” Get the lyrics right.
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Post by jackspicer on May 13, 2023 22:30:06 GMT
I just watched a pretty long interview with University of Ghent professor of psychoanalytic psychotherapy Mattias Desmet, who explained how and why covid turned people into fascists.
In summary, lonely people with anxiety problems who led meaningless lives felt like they could become part of a community. It didn't matter that the science wasn't adding up. It mattered that they felt they could exert control for once.
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