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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 7, 2023 6:31:45 GMT
True, however it’s Paul who captures the meal memorial the first Christians were practicing. I don’t think he made it up. I think this is the jumping point for the gospel writers to later build a god-like messiah with a sacrificed human and bodily resurrection, something anathema in mainstream 1st c. Judaism, has a potent magical component that would attract pagans. I find myself going back and forth on Paul. There are certainly many who agree with you that he wasn't making it up, but he clearly did make up large portions of Christianity with respect to Gentiles and Jesus' failure to return. All we have are seven letters, so we don't know what he wrote in the hundreds of others he surely must have written. He seems to buy into the heretical Jewish end times eschatology, which is what he was originally out to fight against. He would not have had any agenda, that I see of him starting a new religion, a la L Ron Hubbard or even Joseph Smith. He recognized Jesus' divinity as something conferred upon him and his resurrection was a spiritual one. Nowhere does he indicate Jesus was God's biological son or God himself. He did believe he was in Heaven with a spiritual body.
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Post by Meseia on Aug 7, 2023 6:50:13 GMT
I find myself going back and forth on Paul. There are certainly many who agree with you that he wasn't making it up, but he clearly did make up large portions of Christianity with respect to Gentiles and Jesus' failure to return. All we have are seven letters, so we don't know what he wrote in the hundreds of others he surely must have written. He seems to buy into the heretical Jewish end times eschatology, which is what he was originally out to fight against. He would not have had any agenda, that I see of him starting a new religion, a la L Ron Hubbard or even Joseph Smith. He recognized Jesus' divinity as something conferred upon him and his resurrection was a spiritual one. Nowhere does he indicate Jesus was God's biological son or God himself. He did believe he was in Heaven with a spiritual body. What do you think of the idea that Paul's change of heart was politically motivated? That he saw the futility and danger of war with Rome and was trying to build a bridge to Rome through a Jewish sect that appealed to Gentiles, in which case you could argue that he was successful. Or he was in some sense trying to undermine Rome by backing an anti-Roman religion? Can't remember hearing anyone else discussing it (doesn't mean they haven't) but the idea has been scratching around the back of my mind for a good while.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Aug 7, 2023 7:03:49 GMT
All we have are seven letters, so we don't know what he wrote in the hundreds of others he surely must have written. He seems to buy into the heretical Jewish end times eschatology, which is what he was originally out to fight against. He would not have had any agenda, that I see of him starting a new religion, a la L Ron Hubbard or even Joseph Smith. He recognized Jesus' divinity as something conferred upon him and his resurrection was a spiritual one. Nowhere does he indicate Jesus was God's biological son or God himself. He did believe he was in Heaven with a spiritual body. What do you think of the idea that Paul's change of heart was politically motivated? That he saw the futility and danger of war with Rome and was trying to build a bridge to Rome through a Jewish sect that appealed to Gentiles, in which case you could argue that he was successful. Or he was in some sense trying to undermine Rome by backing an anti-Roman religion? Can't remember hearing anyone else discussing it (doesn't mean they haven't) but the idea has been scratching around the back of my mind for a good while. I think he was no different than folks today who can start out loathing something, then fall in love with it. The End is Near preaching was rampant and the legends of Israel being a bad ass in the region were popular. If anything, Paul was pro Roman appeasement at least. That never changed. Rome had already warned them to get things under control or else. It was the zealots calling for a legitimate king from the line of David rather than the Edomite usurpers.
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Post by SixOfTheRichest on Aug 7, 2023 12:35:40 GMT
Jesus wasn’t a Christian when he and his apostles were allegedly alive, so I’m not sure what your point is. The term “Christian/Christianity” was only devised after his death. I think you get the point. I don’t think you do.
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Post by Winter_King on Aug 14, 2023 10:00:07 GMT
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