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Post by James on Jul 30, 2023 10:19:23 GMT
From my understanding, Across the Spider-Verse and Barbie are woke AF and they were/are doing great financially. What was woke called before the word was coined a few years ago? It used to mean keeping aware of social injustices, now it is just anything that conservatives (and centrists to a lesser extent) don't like. But anyways, I was just trying to use conservatives' logic to show that "go woke go broke" means nothing.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 30, 2023 13:36:51 GMT
There was no forced wokeness in any of the xmen movies. Cringey wokeness is when you have a forced female avenger scene in endgame or things like Cassie Lang lecturing Modok (who they ruined) or Falcon giving a BLM speech lmao Yeah, there are no women in fucking comic book reality. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you hate women? Why did they show a dedicated scene deliberately of all the female avengers getting ready to charge at Thanos in a slow-motion like montage?
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 16:37:59 GMT
Actually, the way the original finale of Wandavision was written sounded like very original writing that would have subverted expectations and maximized the interconnectivity of the MCU. It would have been one of the first ever shows where the main protagonist ended the show as a villain which would have then directly led into her main antagonist role in MoM. I don't know of any show that could have pulled off something like that. Wandavision had the chance to be the pioneer for something different, but they chickened out last minute seemingly due to woke ideals. I thought she did end up as the villain at the end of Wandavision. She had been torturing people in that small town for weeks. Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jul 30, 2023 18:19:26 GMT
Yeah, there are no women in fucking comic book reality. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you hate women? Why did they show a dedicated scene deliberately of all the female avengers getting ready to charge at Thanos in a slow-motion like montage? I don’t know, it’s comic book logic. If you don’t want to see this movie, then don’t go.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jul 30, 2023 18:20:29 GMT
I thought she did end up as the villain at the end of Wandavision. She had been torturing people in that small town for weeks. Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain. Whatever, I enjoyed it. It was one of the most original of the TV series.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 18:43:20 GMT
Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain. Whatever, I enjoyed it. It was one of the most original of the TV series. I enjoyed it up until the last episode, because that last episode was just stupid and ended up leaving a lot of the side-plots either unanswered or unsatisfactorily answered. Not to mention that her villain-turn in MoM then didn't make that much sense and came out of nowhere. In the end, they had what sounded like a tightly-written finale that they threw out the window last minute because, as Feige himself stated, they didn't want the white guy to save the day.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jul 30, 2023 18:56:41 GMT
Whatever, I enjoyed it. It was one of the most original of the TV series. I enjoyed it up until the last episode, because that last episode was just stupid and ended up leaving a lot of the side-plots either unanswered or unsatisfactorily answered. Not to mention that her villain-turn in MoM then didn't make that much sense and came out of nowhere. In the end, they had what sounded like a tightly-written finale that they threw out the window last minute because, as Feige himself stated, they didn't want the white guy to save the day. There was no “white guy” in the story to save the day, unless you mean Vision, who isn’t “white guy,” he’s a robot. Sometimes that it happens in comic book magical life a “white guy” isn’t around to save the day, so it’s up to the children of lesser beings to carry on. Of course, “white guys” would not know that sometimes “white guys” just aren’t there, because you know, they’re not there. Maybe the “white guy” had “white guy” pity party to attend that day.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 19:25:02 GMT
I enjoyed it up until the last episode, because that last episode was just stupid and ended up leaving a lot of the side-plots either unanswered or unsatisfactorily answered. Not to mention that her villain-turn in MoM then didn't make that much sense and came out of nowhere. In the end, they had what sounded like a tightly-written finale that they threw out the window last minute because, as Feige himself stated, they didn't want the white guy to save the day. There was no “white guy” in the story to save the day, unless you mean Vision, who isn’t “white guy,” he’s a robot. Sometimes that it happens in comic book magical life a “white guy” isn’t around to save the day, so it’s up to the children of lesser beings to carry on. Of course, “white guys” would not know that sometimes “white guys” just aren’t there, because you know, they’re not there. Maybe the “white guy” had “white guy” pity party to attend that day. Ok... I see you might not know what I'm talking about. Let me give you some background: The original finale of Wandavision was supposedly Wanda going down the villain path, I believe under the influence of either Mephisto or Nightmare (can't remember which), with Dr. Strange coming in to try and save both her and the town. They already had this finale in place, already shot some scenes and everything, then they cancelled it last minute because Feige said they didn't want the "white guy" (Strange) coming in to show the woman (Wanda) how it was done. So they completely redid the finale and also needed to do massive modifications to MoM, resulting in some very uneven story-writing in both shows.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:38:42 GMT
You do know X-Men was always "Woke", right?
Marvel as a whole has always been "Woke".
It's never been a series for Altrighters.
There was no forced wokeness in any of the xmen movies. Cringey wokeness is when you have a forced female avenger scene in endgame or things like Cassie Lang lecturing Modok (who they ruined) or Falcon giving a BLM speech lmao It's no different from "Have you tried not being a mutant?" or Magneto comparing the mutant stuff to the Holocaust.
The Female Avengers thing is no more forced than the Trinity themselves facing down Thanos, out of everyone else who could have.
"Woke" is just a Boogeyman word for "Anything not extremely Right Wing is bad" anyways.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:39:24 GMT
You do know X-Men was always "Woke", right?
Marvel as a whole has always been "Woke".
It's never been a series for Altrighters.
No, X-Men wasn't "woke". Get that nonsense out of here. X-Men has always been moderate. Neither too liberal nor too conservative but rather promoting ideals from both. Yes, it was. It's against outdated Conservative thinking and it's never been for those people. Anyone who says otherwise never read an X-Men comic.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:42:24 GMT
Having another outsider character come in to resolve the plot would have been awful writing. Having Wanda and Vision resolve their own problem is how you do it. Dr Strange coming in to help would have been terrible.
That Ship of Theseus bit is one of the smartest written "final showdowns" in recent history.
Actually, the way the original finale of Wandavision was written sounded like very original writing that would have subverted expectations and maximized the interconnectivity of the MCU. It would have been one of the first ever shows where the main protagonist ended the show as a villain which would have then directly led into her main antagonist role in MoM. I don't know of any show that could have pulled off something like that. Wandavision had the chance to be the pioneer for something different, but they chickened out last minute seemingly due to woke ideals. Nope, it would have been utterly lazy because Dr Strange and Wanda had no connection beforehand. Imagine if ROTJ ended with some random Jedi we never met before coming in to save Luke from the Emperor.
That would have been lazy, predictable. No different from anything FoX-Men did.
It's called letting Wanda and Visions show be about Wanda and Vision.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:43:28 GMT
Yeah, there are no women in fucking comic book reality. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you hate women? Why did they show a dedicated scene deliberately of all the female avengers getting ready to charge at Thanos in a slow-motion like montage? Same reason they had the Trinity do it alone, ignoring all the other heroes there.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:44:27 GMT
I thought she did end up as the villain at the end of Wandavision. She had been torturing people in that small town for weeks. Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain. You don't get it, Monica was saying "They'll never understand or appreciate when you killed Vision to try and save everyone from Thanos, killing the love of your life for them."
And she was right, the ingrates didn't care about her giving up something like that.
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Post by anwar on Jul 30, 2023 21:45:46 GMT
There was no “white guy” in the story to save the day, unless you mean Vision, who isn’t “white guy,” he’s a robot. Sometimes that it happens in comic book magical life a “white guy” isn’t around to save the day, so it’s up to the children of lesser beings to carry on. Of course, “white guys” would not know that sometimes “white guys” just aren’t there, because you know, they’re not there. Maybe the “white guy” had “white guy” pity party to attend that day. Ok... I see you might not know what I'm talking about. Let me give you some background: The original finale of Wandavision was supposedly Wanda going down the villain path, I believe under the influence of either Mephisto or Nightmare (can't remember which), with Dr. Strange coming in to try and save both her and the town. They already had this finale in place, already shot some scenes and everything, then they cancelled it last minute because Feige said they didn't want the "white guy" (Strange) coming in to show the woman (Wanda) how it was done. So they completely redid the finale and also needed to do massive modifications to MoM, resulting in some very uneven story-writing in both shows. No, the original ending had Wanda lose to Agatha and be a useless damsel who Dr Strange would come in and rescue because he's a manly man and a useless woman always needs those.
Instead of Wanda dealing with her situation herself.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jul 30, 2023 21:57:15 GMT
Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain. You don't get it, Monica was saying "They'll never understand or appreciate when you killed Vision to try and save everyone from Thanos, killing the love of your life for them."
And she was right, the ingrates didn't care about her giving up something like that.
She’s the product of child trafficking. Wanda grew up in the middle of a war and then kidnapped by nefarious people who magically abuse her, turning her into a magical killing machine, who is then kidnapped by virtuous people who use her as a magical killing machine. So she went a little crazy with the magic after the robot she love was sacrificed to save the Universe. Joker from Batman gets more sympathy.
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