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Post by charzhino on Jul 30, 2023 21:58:42 GMT
I don’t know, it’s woke logic. If you don’t want to see this movie, then don’t go. Fixed.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jul 30, 2023 22:00:58 GMT
I don’t know, it’s woke logic. If you don’t want to see this movie, then don’t go. Fixed. Hokey Wokus.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 30, 2023 22:10:09 GMT
It's no different from "Have you tried not being a mutant?" or Magneto comparing the mutant stuff to the Holocaust. Wrong. Both those statements are natural because they are either subtle or fit the characters backstory. Except the Trinity are the 3 original protagonists from the original Avengers, so that scene is organic. Nah, it's just bad writing.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 22:11:07 GMT
Ok... I see you might not know what I'm talking about. Let me give you some background: The original finale of Wandavision was supposedly Wanda going down the villain path, I believe under the influence of either Mephisto or Nightmare (can't remember which), with Dr. Strange coming in to try and save both her and the town. They already had this finale in place, already shot some scenes and everything, then they cancelled it last minute because Feige said they didn't want the "white guy" (Strange) coming in to show the woman (Wanda) how it was done. So they completely redid the finale and also needed to do massive modifications to MoM, resulting in some very uneven story-writing in both shows. No, the original ending had Wanda lose to Agatha and be a useless damsel who Dr Strange would come in and rescue because he's a manly man and a useless woman always needs those.
Instead of Wanda dealing with her situation herself.
Yeah... no. That's some BS you made up. Original ending had Wanda turning villain, which is how it would lead into MoM. Your imaginary version wouldn't make sense as that wouldn't tie-in with MoM at all.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 22:18:22 GMT
No, X-Men wasn't "woke". Get that nonsense out of here. X-Men has always been moderate. Neither too liberal nor too conservative but rather promoting ideals from both. Yes, it was. It's against outdated Conservative thinking and it's never been for those people. Anyone who says otherwise never read an X-Men comic. X-Men had liberal ideas... problem is some people see those and immediately call X-Men woke while completely ignoring the more conservative ideals the show had as well. For example, the X-Men fought against discrimination and a totalitarian government (liberal) but they also promoted working hand-in-hand with the government and didn't hesitate to use violence to stop rebellions against the government from their own kind (conservative). There's a storyline where, via scientific means, the mutants disliked who they were born as and wanted to change and transition to humans as that's what they identified as. That's more along liberal ideas. But then at the end of that storyline was promoted the message that there's no changing what you were born as and they should just accept and make the best out of who they were. That's more along conservative ideas. X-Men was one of the first comics to introduce LGBTQ characters but they also leaned very heavily on stereotypical masculine and feminine traits in others. Heck, Wolverine showcases a lot of what modern society would call "toxic masculinity" traits yet he was the most popular X-Man. Jean Grey was such a damsel in distress that there's a running joke for the TV series that Jean would always faint in the middle of a fight. Like I said, X-Men has always been moderate. It borrowed political ideas from both liberal and conservative mindsets. That's why it was so popular. It allowed people to identify with the X-Men's struggles regardless of their political alignment. You trying to insist it was only left-leaning would ruin what made the X-Men so successful.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 22:25:14 GMT
Actually, the way the original finale of Wandavision was written sounded like very original writing that would have subverted expectations and maximized the interconnectivity of the MCU. It would have been one of the first ever shows where the main protagonist ended the show as a villain which would have then directly led into her main antagonist role in MoM. I don't know of any show that could have pulled off something like that. Wandavision had the chance to be the pioneer for something different, but they chickened out last minute seemingly due to woke ideals. Nope, it would have been utterly lazy because Dr Strange and Wanda had no connection beforehand. Imagine if ROTJ ended with some random Jedi we never met before coming in to save Luke from the Emperor.
That would have been lazy, predictable. No different from anything FoX-Men did.
It's called letting Wanda and Visions show be about Wanda and Vision.
It's called having an interconnected franchise and making the best out of it. Dr. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme (or at least was supposed to be the Sorcerer Supreme). He's the top authority on earth when it comes to magic. Wanda was using magic for months in that small town. Would it not then make sense for Dr. Strange to come and investigate? You need to stop being so narrow-minded Anwar.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 30, 2023 22:27:53 GMT
Not really. I mean, she did villainous things throughout the show but by the end of it she was portrayed to being back to her sane self, fighting off the villain, and sacrificing for the greater good. There's even a line there where Photon tells her "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them". It was ridiculously stupid. Still, she was portrayed as the hero. That's not the same thing as what they had been planning originally where she was supposed to go full villain. You don't get it, Monica was saying "They'll never understand or appreciate when you killed Vision to try and save everyone from Thanos, killing the love of your life for them."
And she was right, the ingrates didn't care about her giving up something like that.
Lol, more made up nonsense. Literally nowhere in the movie is anything mentioned in that regard. What Monica was pertaining to was Wanda destroying the magical dome surrounding the town and in so doing destroyed her magical children and ended her perfect suburban life. That was her sacrifice. P.S. - Are you really calling those town's people ingrates just because they disliked Wanda? Especially since Wanda did torture them for months? Jeeze man, you're messed up.
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Post by anwar on Jul 31, 2023 1:57:20 GMT
It's no different from "Have you tried not being a mutant?" or Magneto comparing the mutant stuff to the Holocaust. Wrong. Both those statements are natural because they are either subtle or fit the characters backstory. Except the Trinity are the 3 original protagonists from the original Avengers, so that scene is organic. Nah, it's just bad writing. Nope, they were garbage lines. Always were and always will be. The MCU did it natural.
Out of all the characters there, it just HAD to be those three? What a contrived coincidence.
Nah, you'd call "The Wire" a woke show by your standards.
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Post by anwar on Jul 31, 2023 1:58:19 GMT
No, the original ending had Wanda lose to Agatha and be a useless damsel who Dr Strange would come in and rescue because he's a manly man and a useless woman always needs those.
Instead of Wanda dealing with her situation herself.
Yeah... no. That's some BS you made up. Original ending had Wanda turning villain, which is how it would lead into MoM. Your imaginary version wouldn't make sense as that wouldn't tie-in with MoM at all. The original ending had nothing to do with Wanda becoming a villain, it had to do with her losing to Agatha until Strange showed up to rescue her. The writers realized how stupid this was and dropped it. It had nothing to do with connecting to MoM.
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Post by anwar on Jul 31, 2023 2:01:26 GMT
Yes, it was. It's against outdated Conservative thinking and it's never been for those people. Anyone who says otherwise never read an X-Men comic. X-Men had liberal ideas... problem is some people see those and immediately call X-Men woke while completely ignoring the more conservative ideals the show had as well. For example, the X-Men fought against discrimination and a totalitarian government (liberal) but they also promoted working hand-in-hand with the government and didn't hesitate to use violence to stop rebellions against the government from their own kind (conservative). There's a storyline where, via scientific means, the mutants disliked who they were born as and wanted to change and transition to humans as that's what they identified as. That's more along liberal ideas. But then at the end of that storyline was promoted the message that there's no changing what you were born as and they should just accept and make the best out of who they were. That's more along conservative ideas. X-Men was one of the first comics to introduce LGBTQ characters but they also leaned very heavily on stereotypical masculine and feminine traits in others. Heck, Wolverine showcases a lot of what modern society would call "toxic masculinity" traits yet he was the most popular X-Man. Jean Grey was such a damsel in distress that there's a running joke for the TV series that Jean would always faint in the middle of a fight. Like I said, X-Men has always been moderate. It borrowed political ideas from both liberal and conservative mindsets. That's why it was so popular. It allowed people to identify with the X-Men's struggles regardless of their political alignment. You trying to insist it was only left-leaning would ruin what made the X-Men so successful. No, the X-Men promoted bullying the government like they bullied the President in X2 into not doing anything.
Actually, the storyline was that the Cure didn't work despite the mutants wanting it to and work would continue on finding a way to change them. So it's "To Be Continued"
Wolverine is pointed out as someone who's popularity really isn't warranted anymore and his flaws are frequently brought up and he's often smacked around when he gets out of line.
Jean wasn't a damsel in the original comics, even at their worst in the 60s she was still portrayed progressively. The 90s show did her dirty though.
X-Men has always been pushing the envelope, just like Captain America. It's never been Conservative.
Saying otherwise is just a lie.
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Post by anwar on Jul 31, 2023 2:03:05 GMT
Nope, it would have been utterly lazy because Dr Strange and Wanda had no connection beforehand. Imagine if ROTJ ended with some random Jedi we never met before coming in to save Luke from the Emperor.
That would have been lazy, predictable. No different from anything FoX-Men did.
It's called letting Wanda and Visions show be about Wanda and Vision.
It's called having an interconnected franchise and making the best out of it. Dr. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme (or at least was supposed to be the Sorcerer Supreme). He's the top authority on earth when it comes to magic. Wanda was using magic for months in that small town. Would it not then make sense for Dr. Strange to come and investigate? You need to stop being so narrow-minded Anwar. He's not the Sorcerer Supreme anymore, Wong is. And that doesn't give them a personal connection to Wanda, her connections are to Vision, Steve, Natasha and Clint. And all of them are dead except Clint, who couldn't have helped her anyways.
Dr Strange and her needed a relationship for that to work, and that couldn't happen till after WandaVision.
You need to understand how character connections work beyond "The Plot needs them".
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Post by anwar on Jul 31, 2023 2:04:22 GMT
You don't get it, Monica was saying "They'll never understand or appreciate when you killed Vision to try and save everyone from Thanos, killing the love of your life for them."
And she was right, the ingrates didn't care about her giving up something like that.
Lol, more made up nonsense. Literally nowhere in the movie is anything mentioned in that regard. What Monica was pertaining to was Wanda destroying the magical dome surrounding the town and in so doing destroyed her magical children and ended her perfect suburban life. That was her sacrifice. P.S. - Are you really calling those town's people ingrates just because they disliked Wanda? Especially since Wanda did torture them for months? Jeeze man, you're messed up. She's talking about Wanda's sacrifices for Humanity. Her big sacrifice was when she killed Vision to try and save everyone from Thanos in Infinity War, that's what Monica meant.
They didn't appreciate what Wanda did before and let 1 week of something where no one was hurt make them forget all that stuff. So yes, Ingrates.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 31, 2023 3:03:45 GMT
It's called having an interconnected franchise and making the best out of it. Dr. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme (or at least was supposed to be the Sorcerer Supreme). He's the top authority on earth when it comes to magic. Wanda was using magic for months in that small town. Would it not then make sense for Dr. Strange to come and investigate? You need to stop being so narrow-minded Anwar. He's not the Sorcerer Supreme anymore, Wong is. And that doesn't give them a personal connection to Wanda, her connections are to Vision, Steve, Natasha and Clint. And all of them are dead except Clint, who couldn't have helped her anyways.
Dr Strange and her needed a relationship for that to work, and that couldn't happen till after WandaVision.
You need to understand how character connections work beyond "The Plot needs them".
So you think the person in charge of making sure Earth is protected from magical attacks has no business investigating a massive magical brainwashing that's going on for months? Lol. Ok dude. Even if it wasn't Strange, then Wong should have come to investigate.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 31, 2023 3:08:00 GMT
X-Men had liberal ideas... problem is some people see those and immediately call X-Men woke while completely ignoring the more conservative ideals the show had as well. For example, the X-Men fought against discrimination and a totalitarian government (liberal) but they also promoted working hand-in-hand with the government and didn't hesitate to use violence to stop rebellions against the government from their own kind (conservative). There's a storyline where, via scientific means, the mutants disliked who they were born as and wanted to change and transition to humans as that's what they identified as. That's more along liberal ideas. But then at the end of that storyline was promoted the message that there's no changing what you were born as and they should just accept and make the best out of who they were. That's more along conservative ideas. X-Men was one of the first comics to introduce LGBTQ characters but they also leaned very heavily on stereotypical masculine and feminine traits in others. Heck, Wolverine showcases a lot of what modern society would call "toxic masculinity" traits yet he was the most popular X-Man. Jean Grey was such a damsel in distress that there's a running joke for the TV series that Jean would always faint in the middle of a fight. Like I said, X-Men has always been moderate. It borrowed political ideas from both liberal and conservative mindsets. That's why it was so popular. It allowed people to identify with the X-Men's struggles regardless of their political alignment. You trying to insist it was only left-leaning would ruin what made the X-Men so successful. No, the X-Men promoted bullying the government like they bullied the President in X2 into not doing anything.
Actually, the storyline was that the Cure didn't work despite the mutants wanting it to and work would continue on finding a way to change them. So it's "To Be Continued"
Wolverine is pointed out as someone who's popularity really isn't warranted anymore and his flaws are frequently brought up and he's often smacked around when he gets out of line.
Jean wasn't a damsel in the original comics, even at their worst in the 60s she was still portrayed progressively. The 90s show did her dirty though.
X-Men has always been pushing the envelope, just like Captain America. It's never been Conservative.
Saying otherwise is just a lie.
Like I said, people like you latch on to only the elements you want to see while ignoring the other elements of the show that goes against your beliefs. Like the X-Men enforcing vigilante justice against Magneto and his ilk simply because Magneto rose against the government. Or how some of the X-Men were already advising against the "cure" before they even discovered it wasn't working. Heck, Rogue had to go in secret because most of her teammates didn't agree with it. And no, it wasn't "to be continued", they finished the storyline with a very clear message of accepting who they were as mutants. You claim Wolverine isn't popular anymore yet he's still the most popular X-Men around. Your wishful thinking doesn't make things reality.
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Post by skaathar on Jul 31, 2023 3:10:51 GMT
Yeah... no. That's some BS you made up. Original ending had Wanda turning villain, which is how it would lead into MoM. Your imaginary version wouldn't make sense as that wouldn't tie-in with MoM at all. The original ending had nothing to do with Wanda becoming a villain, it had to do with her losing to Agatha until Strange showed up to rescue her. The writers realized how stupid this was and dropped it. It had nothing to do with connecting to MoM. You know, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to debate with you in good faith. But it seems clear now that you're just going to lie and make stuff up, like you're doing with this imaginary ending you keep insisting on. I mean, even Feige himself has confirmed what I said yet you keep insisting on your own variation. So there's really no use wasting time on someone intent on being dishonest. Into the ignore list you go.
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