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Post by yggdrasil on Sept 19, 2023 9:55:03 GMT
Don't like posting Guardian stuff but this one does show dear old Liz's utter self delusion. www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/18/liz-truss-the-gift-that-keeps-on-givingThat was just the beginning of the Truss fantasy. Because now she was asking us to believe that the entire political and economic establishment had been kidnapped by a socialist cabal sometime in the last 30 years and the UK had effectively been run by Moscow station for decades. The Office for Budget Responsibility and the Treasury? Communist sleeper cells dedicated to bringing down free market capitalism. Even the Tory party had been taken over by the Reds who all went to the same London dinner parties and didn’t invite her. And the top double agent was none less than Rishi who had been recruited while at that well-known spy hotbed of Goldman Sachs. Radon Liz seemed to have forgotten she had been a Tory minister for most of the past 13 years and could have raised the alert then. It all became increasingly deranged. She hadn’t consulted the OBR before the mini-budget as she knew they would give her the wrong information. Only she really understood the reality. She could have been a conspiracy theorist with her own YouTube channel. ..........self delusion is hardly unusual in politics but she really does take it to new levels. |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Sept 19, 2023 10:10:32 GMT
Yup. Sad really.
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Post by Flying Monkeys on Sept 19, 2023 12:11:12 GMT
I think she's realised that the David Icke approach works - say outrageous things, get attention.
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Post by Roxy on Sept 19, 2023 12:29:13 GMT
Why is anyone platforming her nonsense? Carl LaFong was PM longer than she was. |
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Sept 19, 2023 12:55:41 GMT
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Post by tickingmask on Sept 19, 2023 14:11:43 GMT
I've never had much of an opinion of Liz Truss and I remember saying so at the time she became shoo-in for PM, but I think she is right that her efforts to revive the moribund economy and engender growth were torpedoed by a largely hostile establishment, hell-bent on maintaining insane levels of welfare spending propped up by cheap money. Look no further than unhelpful comments by Mark Carney about 'Argentina on the channel' and by the IMF about her policies being socially unfair. When the fuck did it become the job of the IMF to make pronouncements on how socially fair or unfair economic measures were?
Still, far easier to sneer and use tired and boring cliches that should have been put to sleep decades ago (like 'the gift that keeps on giving') and churn out the usual tabloid-style wank fodder than to say anything constructive at all that might help get the UK out of the economic doldrums it is currently in. Is anybody else actually arguing for a free market capitalist system based on supply-side economics any more, or has this concept gone completely out of fashion nowadays?
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Post by mowlick on Sept 19, 2023 14:18:54 GMT
I've never had much of an opinion of Liz Truss and I remember saying so at the time she became shoo-in for PM, but I think she is right that her efforts to revive the moribund economy and engender growth were torpedoed by a largely hostile establishment, hell-bent on maintaining insane levels of welfare spending propped up by cheap money. Look no further than unhelpful comments by Mark Carney about 'Argentina on the channel' and by the IMF about her policies being socially unfair. When the fuck did it become the job of the IMF to make pronouncements on how socially fair or unfair economic measures were? Still, far easier to sneer and use tired and boring cliches that should have been put to sleep decades ago like 'the gift that keeps on giving' and churn out the usual tabloid-style wank fodder than to say anything constructive at all that might help get the UK out of the economic doldrums it is currently in. I have long thought that our Liz has some odd toys in her attic, but cutting taxes rarely does any harm to an economy. But she moved too fast. If she had knocked a point or two off corporation tax every year then the markets would have had time to adjust and all would have been well. It certainly worked with the Micks. But she went at it bald headed and all was woe. |
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Post by tickingmask on Sept 19, 2023 14:45:36 GMT
I have long thought that our Liz has some odd toys in her attic, but cutting taxes rarely does any harm to an economy. But she moved too fast. If she had knocked a point or two off corporation tax every year then the markets would have had time to adjust and all would have been well. It certainly worked with the Micks. But she went at it bald headed and all was woe. I don't think she proposed to cut corporation tax at all, did she? I thought she was just trying to cancel the 6% increase that was being proposed at the time which seemed designed to kill all investment into the UK along with any prospect of growth or productivity inprovement stone dead. There's no doubt she made plenty of mistakes and it's tempting to claim that her anti-establishment rants are an attempt to distract our attention from them, but it was interesting to see the establishment reaction with regards to the view that tax cuts per se are a bad thing because they benefit the rich more than the poor (yes, of course they do, they must, because the rich pay more tax in the first place, duh!). Have we ever seen this type of collective hand-wringing morality which trumps all economic sense at any time in the past? I don't think we have in the UK - this is something entirely new. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 15:11:01 GMT
She's popular among the Tory membership though who see her as Thatcher's Second Coming. Sunak couldn't beat her in a straight popularity competition. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 15:16:46 GMT
hell-bent on maintaining insane levels of welfare spending Did Truss argue for cutting welfare spending? If I recall correctly, she wanted to lower taxes - it was Sunak who said if she did so, she would have to cut welfare spending but she disagreed with him on that. I think the IMF etc saw things the way Sunak did rather than them suddenly caring about the poor. I remember Truss saying she would ease up on measures to tackle climate change, but otherwise I don't recall her arguing for cuts. But I could be misremembering. |
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Post by mowlick on Sept 19, 2023 15:44:04 GMT
hell-bent on maintaining insane levels of welfare spending Did Truss argue for cutting welfare spending? If I recall correctly, she wanted to lower taxes - it was Sunak who said if she did so, she would have to cut welfare spending but she disagreed with him on that. I think the IMF etc saw things the way Sunak did rather than them suddenly caring about the poor. I remember Truss saying she would ease up on measures to tackle climate change, but otherwise I don't recall her arguing for cuts. But I could be misremembering. You and mask are right. Truss did not cut corporation tax, she merely did not raise it. Of course Berkeley, being the syphilitic remainer shit that he was an still is, raised it from 19% to 25% last April. |
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Post by tickingmask on Sept 19, 2023 16:03:35 GMT
Did Truss argue for cutting welfare spending? If I recall correctly, she wanted to lower taxes - it was Sunak who said if she did so, she would have to cut welfare spending but she disagreed with him on that. I think the IMF etc saw things the way Sunak did rather than them suddenly caring about the poor. I remember Truss saying she would ease up on measures to tackle climate change, but otherwise I don't recall her arguing for cuts. But I could be misremembering. You're not misremembering, and that was her biggest mistake. She imagined that she could cut taxes (or rather stop them increasing to an all time high - her 'cuts' really weren't that dramatic when you look at them) while keeping spending high until, oooh, after the next election, I imagine. The markets disagreed with her, although the highly negative public reaction from the likes of the IMF (whose job it is to smooth over bad situations, not make them worse with mawkish comments about 'fairness') didn't help.
(Edit) I see she is now saying that she would have spent around £35bn less by now than the current Tory administration if she had remained PM, but I'm not sure how (probably because I didn't read that much into it).
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Post by yggdrasil on Sept 19, 2023 16:36:31 GMT
I've never had much of an opinion of Liz Truss and I remember saying so at the time she became shoo-in for PM, but I think she is right that her efforts to revive the moribund economy and engender growth were torpedoed by a largely hostile establishment, hell-bent on maintaining insane levels of welfare spending propped up by cheap money. Look no further than unhelpful comments by Mark Carney about 'Argentina on the channel' and by the IMF about her policies being socially unfair. When the fuck did it become the job of the IMF to make pronouncements on how socially fair or unfair economic measures were? Still, far easier to sneer and use tired and boring cliches that should have been put to sleep decades ago (like 'the gift that keeps on giving') and churn out the usual tabloid-style wank fodder than to say anything constructive at all that might help get the UK out of the economic doldrums it is currently in. Is anybody else actually arguing for a free market capitalist system based on supply-side economics any more, or has this concept gone completely out of fashion nowadays? Yes, nigh on 45 billion of un costed tax cuts that had investors running for the hills was the way to go about "reviving the moribund economy". You are utterly delusional. Still, it was the "establishment" wot dun it. |
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Post by yggdrasil on Sept 19, 2023 16:38:57 GMT
She's popular among the Tory membership though who see her as Thatcher's Second Coming. Sunak couldn't beat her in a straight popularity competition. Sunak couldn't beat her or Mordaunt or anyone in a straight fight with the Conservative Party members voting, just the wrong skin colour. That's why Truss and her Daily Mail supporters set out to destroy Mordaunt from day 1, they knew if they beat her they would win. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 17:03:38 GMT
You're not misremembering, and that was her biggest mistake. She imagined that she could cut taxes (or rather stop them increasing to an all time high - her 'cuts' really weren't that dramatic when you look at them) while keeping spending high until, oooh, after the next election, I imagine. The markets disagreed with her, although the highly negative public reaction from the likes of the IMF (whose job it is to smooth over bad situations, not make them worse with mawkish comments about 'fairness') didn't help. (Edit) I see she is now saying that she would have spent around £35bn less by now than the current Tory administration if she had remained PM, but I'm not sure how (probably because I didn't read that much into it). In a way, I feel bad for Truss. She's remembered for her terrible economic policies but they were never really put to the test. Investors generally prefer stability so any bold moves are going to cause panic in the market. So politicians will base themselves around a stance of 'nothing will fundamentally change' so as not to risk panicking investors and nothing much changes - for good or ill. |
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