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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:04:11 GMT
I've mainly seen Christians oppose celebrating Christmas because they think it's too pagan or too Catholic. Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? Even the Amish celebrate Christmas.
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Post by Hnefahogg on Dec 11, 2023 15:06:02 GMT
Well, I listened to a Catholic professor who said he knew Catholics who became Protestants just so that they could divorce... Must not be American. In the USA, divorces/marriages are handled entirely by the courts, not the churches. One doesn't have to ask permission of a priest/pastor. Just show up in court and pay the fees. One more kick in the ass for the "Christian nation" crowd. He's American. I'm no expert, although I believe Catholics can get legally divorced, but in the eyes of the Catholic Church they're still married to their first spouse until death sets them apart, so the Church won't allow them to remarry. Protestant churches are more tolerant to remarriage.
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Post by DalekFred on Dec 11, 2023 15:10:11 GMT
I've mainly seen Christians oppose celebrating Christmas because they think it's too pagan or too Catholic. Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? The Puritans who established America were VERY opposed to ANY Catholic or Anglican celebrations and intentionally built a structure on Xmas just to own da libz - err - papists. Other non-christmassy Christians: Seventh Day Adventist Church Mennonites Amish Church of God Christian Congregation Churches of Christ Independent Baptists Oneness Pentecostals Armstrongites True Jesus Church and this pastor:
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Post by Isapop on Dec 11, 2023 15:11:13 GMT
Call it semantics if you will. I think there is an important distinction between country and government or state. What is a country if not its people and its culture? If the overwhelming majority of the population of a country is Muslim, then I don’t see a problem with saying that it is a Muslim country, even if its laws clearly mandate a separation between mosque and state.
I don’t understand how anyone who is even remotely familiar with Italy can possibly object to referring to it as a Catholic country, even though of course the Italian state is completely secular.
No one inside or outside of Italy (or Brazil or Poland) objects to "Catholic country" because, while Catholicism is no longer the official "state religion", it used to be, and it still enjoys special status in government not available to other faiths. So, speaking informally, they are Catholic countries. But in the context of a discussion of America, when someone claims the U.S. is a Christian country, they don't mean merely that the majority of the population identifies as Christian. That's a statistical fact that no one would argue with. What they mean (wrongly, I will say) is the that the U.S. identity and the structure of the U.S. government were founded on a Christian worldview. But if all you mean is the population angle, then you're going to make yourself misunderstood to everyone whenever you refer to the U.S. as a Christian country. Another quotation. The Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, unanimously ratified by the United States Senate and signed by Pres. John Adams: "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." (Note that extra clause "in any sense".)
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Post by mrellaguru on Dec 11, 2023 15:11:59 GMT
I've mainly seen Christians oppose celebrating Christmas because they think it's too pagan or too Catholic. Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? Even the Amish celebrate Christmas.
Some evangelicals are like this. Kirk Cameron even made an entire "movie" defending Christmas as being okay for Christians to celebrate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 15:17:18 GMT
Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? Even the Amish celebrate Christmas.
Some evangelicals are like this. Kirk Cameron even made an entire "movie" defending Christmas as being okay for Christians to celebrate.
I was raised evangelical and haven't heard one evangelical ever question celebrating Christmas. In fact, there were many "C and E" members of the church...those that only showed up for Christmas and Easter.
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Post by Factchecker3Point0 on Dec 11, 2023 15:17:45 GMT
John Adams; Treaty of Tripoli
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 16:54:44 GMT
Are they? It might be the most popular religion there but are they Catholic of Muslim countries or just Catholic majority or Muslim majority countries? To me a religious country either has a state religion or actively follows religious doctrine in governance.
Call it semantics if you will. I think there is an important distinction between country and government or state. What is a country if not its people and its culture? If the overwhelming majority of the population of a country is Muslim, then I don’t see a problem with saying that it is a Muslim country, even if its laws clearly mandate a separation between mosque and state.
I don’t understand how anyone who is even remotely familiar with Italy can possibly object to referring to it as a Catholic country, even though of course the Italian state is completely secular.
Okay, I'll call it semantics because there's a difference between being culturally religious and having that religion guide national interests. If Italy is a secular state then that's why... I'd call it a secular state.
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Post by 99999 on Dec 11, 2023 17:24:37 GMT
No, it's like saying that Brazil and Italy and Poland are Catholic countries, or that Tunisia and Turkey are Muslim countries. The Constitution specifically puts a break in this notion. Christmas is a national holiday because of its cultural significance, not its religious content. Jewish person, a rabbi to be specific, once told me he will never enter any Jew’s home with a Christmas tree in it. I told him the Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christianity. Will that Rabbi enter a Jewish owned store that sells those Christmas items?
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Post by jeffersoncody on Dec 11, 2023 17:26:55 GMT
Because the USA is no longer a majority Christian country. He also thinks only Christians should be allowed to greet each other with merry Christmas. Happy holidays, anyone? Sounds like he's a son-of-a-bitch.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Dec 11, 2023 18:48:42 GMT
I've mainly seen Christians oppose celebrating Christmas because they think it's too pagan or too Catholic. Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? Even the Amish celebrate Christmas. Barely. However, the Puritans in Colonial America forbade Christmas celebrations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 18:54:10 GMT
Yeah right. Jehovah's witnesses, sure. But who else? Even the Amish celebrate Christmas. Barely. However, the Puritans in Colonial America forbade Christmas celebrations. So you're suggesting that America had a Christian founding?
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Dec 11, 2023 18:56:21 GMT
The Constitution specifically puts a break in this notion. Christmas is a national holiday because of its cultural significance, not its religious content. Jewish person, a rabbi to be specific, once told me he will never enter any Jew’s home with a Christmas tree in it. I told him the Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christianity. Will that Rabbi enter a Jewish owned store that sells those Christmas items? I didn’t ask. It daresay he would. Family Dollar, owned by the Levine Family, is a huge employer in Charlotte as its HQ and distribution center are here. We have large Jewish population and history in Charlotte. There were a lot of Jewish textile mill owners back in the day.
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Dec 11, 2023 18:57:28 GMT
Barely. However, the Puritans in Colonial America forbade Christmas celebrations. So you're suggesting that America had a Christian founding? They were here on the Massachusetts Bay Company’s dime, so it was Capitalism, baby. They were grubstaked to turn a profit on the company’s plantations, not establish a church. The London businessmen didn’t care about that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 19:05:38 GMT
So you're suggesting that America had a Christian founding? They were here on the Massachusetts Bay Company’s dime, so it was Capitalism, baby. They were grubstaked to turn a profit on the company’s plantations, not establish a church. The London businessmen didn’t care about that. How did the people founding the settlements feel about it?
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