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Post by Winter_King on Dec 14, 2023 16:18:32 GMT
It's not just Hamas infrastructure. Cutting water, electricity. Hospitals, schools and refugee camps. Thousands of women and children killed. And support for Hamas increased after the Israeli crackdown. How is this destroying Hamas? I seriously doubt that Hamas will be destroyed if you end up with people joining Hamas after losing families and friends were killed. The Japanese surrendered after the atomic bombings and the threat of a future Soviet invasion. None of these applies to Gaza. Plus Japanese leaders lived in Japan, they weren't safe in a neighboring country living in luxury. And has I showed in another thread, this was the poll conducted about Hamas support before the war:  Clearly there were plenty Palestinians who didn't like Hamas. Of course, the support for Hamas has only increased now. And as for the political solution, it's unlikely to happen with the current Israeli government which has been adamant about rejecting a two state solution which is the only viable proposal. Netanyahu strategy has been about driving a wedge between the PA and Hamas so he has propped up Hamas in Gaza so it kept the Palestinians divided so they wouldn't push for a two state solution.
That is a shame, but inevitable in a densely populated place like Gaza. And support for Hamas increased after the Israeli crackdown. How is this destroying Hamas?I take a wait-and-see attitude. Israel might fail in destroying Hamas. But it might succeed, just as America succeeded in destroying al-Qaeda. I seriously doubt that Hamas will be destroyed if you end up with people joining Hamas after losing families and friends were killed.That is a risk Israel has to take. I am sure Israeli strategists factored that point into their considerations. They still chose to fight this war. The Japanese surrendered after the atomic bombings and the threat of a future Soviet invasion. None of these applies to Gaza.You had said that bombing did not turn the Japanese people against Hirohito. I was simply showing that bombing DID convince the Japanese to surrender. Even so, bombing is not enough to destroy Hamas. That's why Israel has sent in ground troops. Of course, the support for Hamas has only increased now.
Something Israeli strategists must have taken into account. They still decided to fight this war. And as for the political solution, it's unlikely to happen with the current Israeli government which has been adamant about rejecting a two state solution which is the only viable proposal.A two-state solution will only be possible after there is a drastic change in the culture of the Palestinians, away from endless violence and toward permanent peace with the Jewish state. Nothing Netanyahu's government can do will change that. Only pressure from the world community will convince the Palestinians to change, and, so far, the world has no desire to apply such pressure. It would rather just condemn Israel; it's more fun. And that's why I used the expression bomb Gaza into submission. Al Qaeda and Hamas are not really similar other than both using terror as a tactic. For starters, Al Qaeda wasn't destroyed. It sill exists although significantly weakened. Al Qaeda was a pan islamic organization not tied to any specific place or people but to an ideology. It started to collapse after Bin Laden and his number 2 were killed. I never had the same amount of of popular support. Hamas is not pan islamic organization. It's Islamist nationalist organization tied to Palestine. Tactics aside, even Palestinians that don't belong to Hamas believe the in goal of the Palestinian national home. Hamas leaders are not going to be killed in Gaza because they don't live there. Atomic bombing convinced the Japanese to surrender. Not conventional one. Plus some historians even argued that it was the threat of the Soviet invasion that push them to that limit. Also Hirohito was basically seen as living God among the Japanese... So the US basically needed to convince one Japanese to surrender. Netanyahu's government did something about the two state solution though. It did it so would never be viable. |
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Post by Harry Skywalker on Dec 14, 2023 16:27:47 GMT
Could be wrong but I don't think I have seen a single person "support" Hamas. Then you are absolutely wrong. |
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Post by SciFive on Dec 14, 2023 16:28:48 GMT
It's not just Hamas infrastructure. Cutting water, electricity. Hospitals, schools and refugee camps. Thousands of women and children killed.
That is a shame, but inevitable in a densely populated place like Gaza. And support for Hamas increased after the Israeli crackdown. How is this destroying Hamas?I take a wait-and-see attitude. Israel might fail in destroying Hamas. But it might succeed, just as America succeeded in destroying al-Qaeda. I seriously doubt that Hamas will be destroyed if you end up with people joining Hamas after losing families and friends were killed.That is a risk Israel has to take. I am sure Israeli strategists factored that point into their considerations. They still chose to fight this war. The Japanese surrendered after the atomic bombings and the threat of a future Soviet invasion. None of these applies to Gaza.You had said that bombing did not turn the Japanese people against Hirohito. I was simply showing that bombing DID convince the Japanese to surrender. Even so, bombing is not enough to destroy Hamas. That's why Israel has sent in ground troops. Of course, the support for Hamas has only increased now.
Something Israeli strategists must have taken into account. They still decided to fight this war. And as for the political solution, it's unlikely to happen with the current Israeli government which has been adamant about rejecting a two state solution which is the only viable proposal.A two-state solution will only be possible after there is a drastic change in the culture of the Palestinians, away from endless violence and toward permanent peace with the Jewish state. Nothing Netanyahu's government can do will change that. Only pressure from the world community will convince the Palestinians to change, and, so far, the world has no desire to apply such pressure. It would rather just condemn Israel; it's more fun. And that's why I used the expression bomb Gaza into submission. Al Qaeda and Hamas are not really similar other than both using terror as a tactic. For starters, Al Qaeda wasn't destroyed. It sill exists although significantly weakened. Al Qaeda was a pan islamic organization not tied to any specific place or people but to an ideology. It started to collapse after Bin Laden and his number 2 were killed. I never had the same amount of of popular support. Hamas is not pan islamic organization. It's Islamist nationalist organization tied to Palestine. Tactics aside, even Palestinians that don't belong to Hamas believe the in goal of the Palestinian national home. Hamas leaders are not going to be killed in Gaza because they don't live there. Atomic bombing convinced the Japanese to surrender. Not conventional one. Plus some historians even argued that it was the threat of the Soviet invasion that push them to that limit. Also Hirohito was basically seen as living God among the Japanese... So the US basically needed to convince one Japanese to surrender. Netanyahu's government did something about the two state solution though. It did it so would never be viable.Mahmoud Abbas killed the two state solution.
He solved the negotiations all by his lonesome and he expects the world to accept his plan without Israel being allowed any negotiations whatsoever.
Abbas's plan would kill Israel.
So the whole thing is dead as a door nail.
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Post by yggdrasil on Dec 14, 2023 16:46:52 GMT
Could be wrong but I don't think I have seen a single person "support" Hamas. Then you are absolutely wrong. I must have missed it, could you provide a link, thanks. |
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 14, 2023 16:47:01 GMT
And that's why I used the expression bomb Gaza into submission. Al Qaeda and Hamas are not really similar other than both using terror as a tactic. For starters, Al Qaeda wasn't destroyed. It sill exists although significantly weakened. Al Qaeda was a pan islamic organization not tied to any specific place or people but to an ideology. It started to collapse after Bin Laden and his number 2 were killed. I never had the same amount of of popular support. Hamas is not pan islamic organization. It's Islamist nationalist organization tied to Palestine. Tactics aside, even Palestinians that don't belong to Hamas believe the in goal of the Palestinian national home. Hamas leaders are not going to be killed in Gaza because they don't live there. Atomic bombing convinced the Japanese to surrender. Not conventional one. Plus some historians even argued that it was the threat of the Soviet invasion that push them to that limit. Also Hirohito was basically seen as living God among the Japanese... So the US basically needed to convince one Japanese to surrender. Netanyahu's government did something about the two state solution though. It did it so would never be viable.Mahmoud Abbas killed the two state solution.
With a huge help from Netanyahu who always has been against it. Hell his own party is against it. |
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Post by Harry Skywalker on Dec 14, 2023 16:47:27 GMT
Then you are absolutely wrong. I must have missed it, could you provide a link, thanks. Link? ZELDA! |
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Post by SciFive on Dec 14, 2023 17:00:45 GMT
Mahmoud Abbas killed the two state solution.
With a huge help from Netanyahu who always has been against it. Hell his own party is against it. Netanyahu gave it no help whatsoever.
The whole thing was a whopping lie going all the way back 30 years.
Arafat informed the Arab world that he was working on a stages plan where he would get something from Israel and then get more.
The end result would be Israel not existing.
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Post by marsatax on Dec 15, 2023 16:47:38 GMT
It's not just Hamas infrastructure. Cutting water, electricity. Hospitals, schools and refugee camps. Thousands of women and children killed.
That is a shame, but inevitable in a densely populated place like Gaza. And support for Hamas increased after the Israeli crackdown. How is this destroying Hamas?I take a wait-and-see attitude. Israel might fail in destroying Hamas. But it might succeed, just as America succeeded in destroying al-Qaeda. I seriously doubt that Hamas will be destroyed if you end up with people joining Hamas after losing families and friends were killed.That is a risk Israel has to take. I am sure Israeli strategists factored that point into their considerations. They still chose to fight this war. The Japanese surrendered after the atomic bombings and the threat of a future Soviet invasion. None of these applies to Gaza.You had said that bombing did not turn the Japanese people against Hirohito. I was simply showing that bombing DID convince the Japanese to surrender. Even so, bombing is not enough to destroy Hamas. That's why Israel has sent in ground troops. Of course, the support for Hamas has only increased now.
Something Israeli strategists must have taken into account. They still decided to fight this war. And as for the political solution, it's unlikely to happen with the current Israeli government which has been adamant about rejecting a two state solution which is the only viable proposal.A two-state solution will only be possible after there is a drastic change in the culture of the Palestinians, away from endless violence and toward permanent peace with the Jewish state. Nothing Netanyahu's government can do will change that. Only pressure from the world community will convince the Palestinians to change, and, so far, the world has no desire to apply such pressure. It would rather just condemn Israel; it's more fun. And that's why I used the expression bomb Gaza into submission. Al Qaeda and Hamas are not really similar other than both using terror as a tactic. For starters, Al Qaeda wasn't destroyed. It sill exists although significantly weakened. Al Qaeda was a pan islamic organization not tied to any specific place or people but to an ideology. It started to collapse after Bin Laden and his number 2 were killed. I never had the same amount of of popular support. Hamas is not pan islamic organization. It's Islamist nationalist organization tied to Palestine. Tactics aside, even Palestinians that don't belong to Hamas believe the in goal of the Palestinian national home. Hamas leaders are not going to be killed in Gaza because they don't live there. Atomic bombing convinced the Japanese to surrender. Not conventional one. Plus some historians even argued that it was the threat of the Soviet invasion that push them to that limit. Also Hirohito was basically seen as living God among the Japanese... So the US basically needed to convince one Japanese to surrender. Netanyahu's government did something about the two state solution though. It did it so would never be viable.
Correction. Israel is attempting to bomb HAMAS into submission. But air power won't do it alone. That's why there are Israeli ground troops in Gaza. Al Qaeda and Hamas are not really similar other than both using terror as a tactic.
That, and the fact that they are both Sunni, both militant Muslim groups, and both had/have a murderous hatred for Israel, for Jews, for America, and for the West. For starters, Al Qaeda wasn't destroyed. It sill exists although significantly weakened.
We don't hear much about it anymore. If Hamas is rendered harmless like that, I would be satisfied. Al Qaeda was a pan islamic organization not tied to any specific place or people but to an ideology.Hamas also has an ideology, as given in its charter. avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.aspAnd it IS pan-Islamic, as it is a branch of the pan-Islamic Muslim Brotherhood. It wants to convert the whole world to Islam, through force if necessary. Hamas is not pan islamic organization.
Yes it is, as I have just explained. Hamas leaders are not going to be killed in Gaza because they don't live there.
That may be so. But if Israel does the job right, Hamas will be wiped out in Gaza, and the Hamas leadership will become little more than a debating society. Netanyahu's government did something about the two state solution though. It did it so would never be viable.
Many Israelis are angry about Netanyahu and oppose him. But even they are united on the need to destroy Hamas. |
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Post by hugsfromlv426 on Dec 15, 2023 16:53:03 GMT
They could put pineapple on pizza.
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