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Post by clusium on Jun 14, 2024 4:19:44 GMT
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Post by bomtombadil on Jun 14, 2024 13:21:48 GMT
Sucks they couldn't pray away the iceberg. Must not have been strong enough in their faith.
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Post by amyghost on Jun 14, 2024 20:07:08 GMT
Sucks they couldn't pray away the iceberg. Must not have been strong enough in their faith. To be fair, Our Lord lived in the desert. He mentioned something about faith moving mountains, but I guess he didn't know too much about icebergs. TBH, I don't see that any of the three did anything especially 'heroic'. They seem to have been more preoccupied with getting the more devout passengers to stand around and await their death than acting in ways that might have helped save lives. Admittedly, given the scale of the disaster, there wouldn't have been much one or even three men could have done to avert many of the deaths, but I don't get any impression that any of them even tried. As to one of them being named as a 'martyr for the faith' by Pius X, I'm not exactly sure how his demise could have been considered a martyrdom, unless the Pope was suggesting that the iceberg attacked the ship because the iceberg was anti-Catholic and out to kill any clerics aboard. |
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Post by clusium on Jun 14, 2024 21:06:33 GMT
Sucks they couldn't pray away the iceberg. Must not have been strong enough in their faith. To be fair, Our Lord lived in the desert. He mentioned something about faith moving mountains, but I guess he didn't know too much about icebergs. TBH, I don't see that any of the three did anything especially 'heroic'. They seem to have been more preoccupied with getting the more devout passengers to stand around and await their death than acting in ways that might have helped save lives. Admittedly, given the scale of the disaster, there wouldn't have been much one or even three men could have done to avert many of the deaths, but I don't get any impression that any of them even tried. As to one of them being named as a 'martyr for the faith' by Pius X, I'm not exactly sure how his demise could have been considered a martyrdom, unless the Pope was suggesting that the iceberg attacked the ship because the iceberg was anti-Catholic and out to kill any clerics aboard. Fr. Byles was offered a spot on one of the lifeboats, but, chose to stay behind for the people who would not be able to survive the sinking. That is why the Pope declared him a martyr. Fr. Thomas Byles |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jun 15, 2024 11:02:45 GMT
Sucks they couldn't pray away the iceberg. Must not have been strong enough in their faith. If they had been Protestant priests, they could have lead the survivors to safety.  |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jun 15, 2024 11:05:22 GMT
To be fair, Our Lord lived in the desert. He mentioned something about faith moving mountains, but I guess he didn't know too much about icebergs. TBH, I don't see that any of the three did anything especially 'heroic'. They seem to have been more preoccupied with getting the more devout passengers to stand around and await their death than acting in ways that might have helped save lives. Admittedly, given the scale of the disaster, there wouldn't have been much one or even three men could have done to avert many of the deaths, but I don't get any impression that any of them even tried. As to one of them being named as a 'martyr for the faith' by Pius X, I'm not exactly sure how his demise could have been considered a martyrdom, unless the Pope was suggesting that the iceberg attacked the ship because the iceberg was anti-Catholic and out to kill any clerics aboard. Fr. Byles was offered a spot on one of the lifeboats, but, chose to stay behind for the people who would not be able to survive the sinking. That is why the Pope declared him a martyr. Fr. Thomas BylesSo that means all the people who did the same thing are also martyrs? Including the rich Jewish people, because Isidor Straus, founder of Macy's Dept Stores, did the same thing. |
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Post by clusium on Jun 15, 2024 16:50:46 GMT
Fr. Byles was offered a spot on one of the lifeboats, but, chose to stay behind for the people who would not be able to survive the sinking. That is why the Pope declared him a martyr. Fr. Thomas BylesSo that means all the people who did the same thing are also martyrs? Including the rich Jewish people, because Isidor Straus, founder of Macy's Dept Stores, did the same thing. Absolutely. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jun 16, 2024 11:37:42 GMT
So that means all the people who did the same thing are also martyrs? Including the rich Jewish people, because Isidor Straus, founder of Macy's Dept Stores, did the same thing. Absolutely. They maybe selfless saints, but they are not martyrs. The iceberg wasn’t persecuting them for their religious beliefs. Nothing personal, it’s just nature.  |
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Post by amyghost on Jun 16, 2024 13:24:27 GMT
To be fair, Our Lord lived in the desert. He mentioned something about faith moving mountains, but I guess he didn't know too much about icebergs. TBH, I don't see that any of the three did anything especially 'heroic'. They seem to have been more preoccupied with getting the more devout passengers to stand around and await their death than acting in ways that might have helped save lives. Admittedly, given the scale of the disaster, there wouldn't have been much one or even three men could have done to avert many of the deaths, but I don't get any impression that any of them even tried. As to one of them being named as a 'martyr for the faith' by Pius X, I'm not exactly sure how his demise could have been considered a martyrdom, unless the Pope was suggesting that the iceberg attacked the ship because the iceberg was anti-Catholic and out to kill any clerics aboard. Fr. Byles was offered a spot on one of the lifeboats, but, chose to stay behind for the people who would not be able to survive the sinking. That is why the Pope declared him a martyr. Fr. Thomas BylesA number of men did likewise. I don't think the Pope offered them instant beatification for it. |
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Post by amyghost on Jun 16, 2024 13:26:44 GMT
Sucks they couldn't pray away the iceberg. Must not have been strong enough in their faith. If they had been Protestant priests, they could have lead the survivors to safety. Gene Hackman, toughest cleric who ever wore a dog collar. I thought of him in this role immediately on watching that vid. Now there's a can-do sort of man of God ![[laugh]](http://storage.proboards.com/6870873/images/kPFtBpkwzwpFTaSmbFWI.gif) . |
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Post by clusium on Jun 16, 2024 16:34:25 GMT
They maybe selfless saints, but they are not martyrs. The iceberg wasn’t persecuting them for their religious beliefs. Nothing personal, it’s just nature. One does not need to endure villainy from their fellow human beings to be a martyr. Personally, I think that Terry Fox can be described as a martyr for his cause, due to the fact that his cancer returned, right while he was running a marathon, searching for a cure for cancer. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jun 16, 2024 16:56:56 GMT
They maybe selfless saints, but they are not martyrs. The iceberg wasn’t persecuting them for their religious beliefs. Nothing personal, it’s just nature. One does not need to endure villainy from their fellow human beings to be a martyr. Personally, I think that Terry Fox can be described as a martyr for his cause, due to the fact that his cancer returned, right while he was running a marathon, searching for a cure for cancer. It doesn’t matter, so if you want to believe they died a martyrs’ death, go ahead. |
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Post by amyghost on Jun 16, 2024 20:07:06 GMT
They maybe selfless saints, but they are not martyrs. The iceberg wasn’t persecuting them for their religious beliefs. Nothing personal, it’s just nature. One does not need to endure villainy from their fellow human beings to be a martyr. Personally, I think that Terry Fox can be described as a martyr for his cause, due to the fact that his cancer returned, right while he was running a marathon, searching for a cure for cancer. Non-human, natural phenomenon does not produce martyrs, unless you're suggesting that God--from whom all things, cancer included, emanate--is as bent on producing them as his human servants have often been. |
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Post by PaulsLaugh on Jun 17, 2024 3:58:55 GMT
One does not need to endure villainy from their fellow human beings to be a martyr. Personally, I think that Terry Fox can be described as a martyr for his cause, due to the fact that his cancer returned, right while he was running a marathon, searching for a cure for cancer. Non-human, natural phenomenon does not produce martyrs, unless you're suggesting that God--from whom all things, cancer included, emanate--is as bent on producing them as his human servants have often been. Saint veneration (which replaced pagan god worship) is kind of a spiritual sex. So, yeah, virginal holy men dying for God is big turn on for some folks. |
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Post by bomtombadil on Jun 17, 2024 16:45:49 GMT
Okay, stop me if you've heard this one:
A priest, a rabbi and an monk boarded the Titanic...
(and that's all I got. Cuz I'm stoopit.)
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