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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:01:03 GMT
The sovereign citizen movement (also SovCit movement or SovCits)[1] is a loose grouping of litigants, anti-government activists, tax protesters, financial scheme promoters, and conspiracy theorists who adhere to pseudolegal concepts. Sovereign citizens claim to be answerable only to their particular interpretations of the common law and believe that they are therefore not subject to any government statutes or proceedings, unless they consent to them.[2][3] The movement, which appeared in the early 1970s, is American in origin and exists primarily in the United States, though it has expanded to other countries: the freeman on the land movement, an offshoot of the sovereign citizen movement with similar doctrines, emerged during the 2000s in Canada before spreading to other Commonwealth countries.[4] In the United States the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) describes sovereign citizens as "anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or 'sovereign' from the United States".[5] The sovereign citizen phenomenon is one of the main contemporary sources of pseudolaw: adherents to its ideology believe that courts have no jurisdiction over people and that the use of certain procedures (such as writing specific phrases on bills they do not want to pay) and loopholes can make one immune from government laws and regulations.[6] They also regard most forms of taxation as illegitimate and reject the use of such things as Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, and vehicle registration.[7] Sovereign citizen arguments have no basis in law and have never been successful in any court.[3][6] The movement may appeal to people facing financial or legal difficulties, or wishing to resist perceived government oppression, and looking for a mechanism that will solve their problems. As a result, it has grown significantly during times of economic or social crisis.[8] Most schemes promoted by sovereign citizens involve means to avoid taxes, ignore laws, eliminate debts, or extract money from the government.
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Sovereignty can generally be defined as supreme authority.[1] Sovereignty entails hierarchy within the state, as well as external autonomy for states.[2] In any state, sovereignty is assigned to the person, body or institution that has the ultimate authority over other people in order to establish a law or change existing laws.[3] In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme legitimate authority over some polity.[4] In international law, sovereignty is the exercise of power by a state. De jure sovereignty refers to the legal right to do so; de facto sovereignty refers to the factual ability to do so. This can become an issue of special concern upon the failure of the usual expectation that de jure and de facto sovereignty exist at the place and time of concern, and reside within the same organization.
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
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Post by Fetzer Zinfandel ♀︎ on Aug 28, 2023 15:02:14 GMT
Reminded me of Bush's "brilliant" answer here:
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:05:05 GMT
Reminded me of Bush's "brilliant" answer here:
Gotta love the 'choices' we've been given over the years, right?
So how do you feel about yourself?
or tribes, for that matter?
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Post by general313 on Aug 28, 2023 15:07:54 GMT
Free Charles Manson!
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Post by merh on Aug 28, 2023 15:09:08 GMT
The sovereign citizen movement (also SovCit movement or SovCits) is a loose grouping of litigants, anti-government activists, tax protesters, financial scheme promoters, and conspiracy theorists who adhere to pseudolegal concepts. Sovereign citizens claim to be answerable only to their particular interpretations of the common law and believe that they are therefore not subject to any government statutes or proceedings, unless they consent to them. The movement, which appeared in the early 1970s, is American in origin and exists primarily in the United States, though it has expanded to other countries: the freeman on the land movement, an offshoot of the sovereign citizen movement with similar doctrines, emerged during the 2000s in Canada before spreading to other Commonwealth countries. In the United States the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) describes sovereign citizens as "anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or 'sovereign' from the United States". The sovereign citizen phenomenon is one of the main contemporary sources of pseudolaw: adherents to its ideology believe that courts have no jurisdiction over people and that the use of certain procedures (such as writing specific phrases on bills they do not want to pay) and loopholes can make one immune from government laws and regulations. They also regard most forms of taxation as illegitimate and reject the use of such things as Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, and vehicle registration. Sovereign citizen arguments have no basis in law and have never been successful in any court. The movement may appeal to people facing financial or legal difficulties, or wishing to resist perceived government oppression, and looking for a mechanism that will solve their problems. As a result, it has grown significantly during times of economic or social crisis. Most schemes promoted by sovereign citizens involve means to avoid taxes, ignore laws, eliminate debts, or extract money from the government.
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Sovereignty can generally be defined as supreme authority. Sovereignty entails hierarchy within the state, as well as external autonomy for states. In any state, sovereignty is assigned to the person, body or institution that has the ultimate authority over other people in order to establish a law or change existing laws. In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme legitimate authority over some polity. In international law, sovereignty is the exercise of power by a state. De jure sovereignty refers to the legal right to do so; de facto sovereignty refers to the factual ability to do so. This can become an issue of special concern upon the failure of the usual expectation that de jure and de facto sovereignty exist at the place and time of concern, and reside within the same organization.
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
So how can it apply if one isn't part of the country in question? So one is one's own country? So one must provide all one's own services. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:17:03 GMT
So how can it apply if one isn't part of the country in question? So one is one's own country? So one must provide all one's own services.
It's an interesting discussion. Did you agree to be 'part of the country'? or was it forced upon you?
Can you state categorically that all of your inalienable rights are honored and respected by your Government?
Isn't each Individual their own person? Don't their rights have some form of importance?
Which services exactly? How many of them are actually the Govt's domain? rather than an overreach?
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Post by papamihel on Aug 28, 2023 15:20:13 GMT
In theory I do like the idea that every individual is a sovereign. But these guys tend to be surly, boring and rather mad.
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Post by merh on Aug 28, 2023 15:31:04 GMT
So how can it apply if one isn't part of the country in question? So one is one's own country? So one must provide all one's own services.
It's an interesting discussion. Did you agree to be 'part of the country'? or was it forced upon you?
Can you state categorically that all of your inalienable rights are honored and respected by your Government?
Isn't each Individual their own person? Don't their rights have some form of importance?
Which services exactly? How many of them are actually the Govt's domain? rather than an overreach?
Isn't that inalienable rights line from the American Declaration od independence? So those inalienable rights recognized by the US are not necessarily recognized by other nations, nor are they actually American since we were not a nation at the time. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:36:46 GMT
It's an interesting discussion. Did you agree to be 'part of the country'? or was it forced upon you?
Can you state categorically that all of your inalienable rights are honored and respected by your Government?
Isn't each Individual their own person? Don't their rights have some form of importance?
Which services exactly? How many of them are actually the Govt's domain? rather than an overreach?
Isn't that inalienable rights line from the American Declaration of independence? So those inalienable rights recognized by the US are not necessarily recognized by other nations, nor are they actually American since we were not a nation at the time.
Yes, yes it is.
Are they recognized fully though?
Why should other nations recognize them? I certainly do not expect everyone to abide the the rules we set up here.
So nothing really counted before at least 1776? if not later, after the Revolutionary War ended?
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:38:22 GMT
In theory I do like the idea that every individual is a sovereign. But these guys tend to be surly, boring and rather mad.
I agree.
But I like to ask WHERE is the line? Has it been clearly defined?
Civil libertarians differ from others, as well. Lawyers and politicians don't seem to be anywhere near agreement either
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Post by cinemachinery on Aug 28, 2023 15:43:19 GMT
Completely valid and I highly encourage all of you to inform any police you encounter of your sovereign status and exemption from such civic services as ticketing should you choose not to cooperate .
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:45:08 GMT
Completely valid and I highly encourage all of you to inform any police you encounter of your sovereign status and exemption from such civic services as ticketing should you choose not to cooperate .
Reminds me of a bit from Tom Segura where he advises people to chew out the LAPD........and even flick their lit cigarettes at them. "They love that!"
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Post by thekindercarebear on Aug 28, 2023 15:48:35 GMT
only in the fact that i can punch my own ticket at anytime i want. once we get our brains transferred into andriods and living for thousands of years with no chance of sexual relief, we'll be denied that sovereignty as well. no more hookers and blow, just work work work. [sad2] bartlesby mikemonger hugsfromlv426 |
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Post by abbey1227 on Aug 28, 2023 15:54:34 GMT
only in the fact that i can punch my own ticket at anytime i want. once we get our brains transferred into andriods and living for thousands of years with no chance of sexual relief, we'll be denied that sovereignty as well.
no more hookers and blow, just work work work.[sad2]
I kinda wonder how the hookers and blow will get paid for once it's all monitored e-payments?
And how hard could the work really be if it's an android body doing it?
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Post by thekindercarebear on Aug 28, 2023 15:56:24 GMT
only in the fact that i can punch my own ticket at anytime i want. once we get our brains transferred into andriods and living for thousands of years with no chance of sexual relief, we'll be denied that sovereignty as well.
no more hookers and blow, just work work work.[sad2]
I kinda wonder how the hookers and blow will get paid for once it's all monitored e-payments?
And how hard could the work really be if it's an android body doing it?
and with our expanded neural add-ons, we can post on IMDb Politics as we work for thousands of years!
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![[shrug]](http://storage.proboards.com/6870873/images/GNdzQKpfkkHBBwUPdCiE.gif)
