|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 27, 2018 20:04:32 GMT
What is more responsible for the seasons --- the tilt of the Earth? Or the closeness to the Sun?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 20:47:27 GMT
What is more responsible for the seasons --- the tilt of the Earth? Or the closeness to the Sun? The tilt. Get an avatar. |
|
|
|
Post by ayatollah on Jan 27, 2018 20:58:08 GMT
Isn't it both? The wobble brings one hemisphere closer while the other is farther away, then it wobbles back and the opposite happens? The tilt changs the distance from the sun.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 27, 2018 21:05:40 GMT
Isn't it both? The wobble brings one hemisphere closer while the other is farther away, then it wobbles back and the opposite happens? The tilt changs the distance from the sun. That's what I thought --- both. But on the thread "Poll ; parents arrested for torturing their children." People are arguing about it. |
|
|
|
Post by Harold of Whoa on Jan 27, 2018 21:50:49 GMT
So, first of all, there's not actually a "wobble", at least not on the time scale of one year that we are discussing in regard to the seasons (I think there is a wobble that happens on a tens-of-thousands-of-years time scale that makes the seasons more or less extreme over different epochs). The distinction between tilt and wobble in this scenario being that Earth's orientation with respect to the universe doesn't change over human time scales - the axis of rotation stays pointed almost directly at Polaris (the North Star) without respect to what season it is. It is just that as Earth moves in its orbit around the sun each hemisphere faces more toward or away from the sun. (Much easier to visualize with a picture.) It is the tilt. Earth's tilted axis of rotation (compared to the plane of its orbit) causes the South Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in December and the North Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in June. That gives those hemispheres more direct sunlight during the day and more hours of daylight, so there is more accumulated heat energy in the air, the water, and the ground on the hemisphere that is getting more direct sunlight in its summer season. The term "closer to the sun" is somewhat vague and confusing, here, because you could actually describe the North Pole as being "closer to the sun" than the South Pole in June, because of being tilted that direction, but the distance is not relevant, and in fact because the Earth's orbit is not perfectly circular, I think the distance to the sun is actually less during our winter in the Northern Hemisphere (I think).  |
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Jan 27, 2018 22:02:29 GMT
It's the tilt. The distance makes bugger all difference.
In terms of distance, one side of the planet gets maybe 1500 miles closer to the sun than the other. It's 93 million miles to the sun, so one side is 0.0016% closer - bugger all.
However, because of the tilt, the concentration of the sun's rays in summer is probably 200% of what it is in winter at temperate latitudes (less at equatorial latitudes, more at polar).
It's the tilt, not the distance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 22:11:56 GMT
Isn't it both? The wobble brings one hemisphere closer while the other is farther away, then it wobbles back and the opposite happens? The tilt changs the distance from the sun. That's what I thought ---both. But on the thread "Poll ; parents arrested for torturing their children." People are arguing about it. Get an avatar. |
|
|
|
Post by kls on Jan 28, 2018 1:58:10 GMT
Closer to the sun or further from the sun in the orbit path applies to the entire planet. The closest distance is about 91 million miles (January) and the furthest is about 94 million miles (July) If that was what created the seasons the northern and southern hemispheres would have the same seasons, not opposites.
It's the tilt and angle of the sun's rays.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2018 2:10:42 GMT
So, first of all, there's not actually a "wobble", at least not on the time scale of one year that we are discussing in regard to the seasons (I think there is a wobble that happens on a tens-of-thousands-of-years time scale that makes the seasons more or less extreme over different epochs). The distinction between tilt and wobble in this scenario being that Earth's orientation with respect to the universe doesn't change over human time scales - the axis of rotation stays pointed almost directly at Polaris (the North Star) without respect to what season it is. It is just that as Earth moves in its orbit around the sun each hemisphere faces more toward or away from the sun. (Much easier to visualize with a picture.) It is the tilt. Earth's tilted axis of rotation (compared to the plane of its orbit) causes the South Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in December and the North Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in June. That gives those hemispheres more direct sunlight during the day and more hours of daylight, so there is more accumulated heat energy in the air, the water, and the ground on the hemisphere that is getting more direct sunlight in its summer season. The term "closer to the sun" is somewhat vague and confusing, here, because you could actually describe the North Pole as being "closer to the sun" than the South Pole in June, because of being tilted that direction, but the distance is not relevant, and in fact because the Earth's orbit is not perfectly circular, I think the distance to the sun is actually less during our winter in the Northern Hemisphere (I think). That is all very interesting. But it takes the Earth a year to circle the Sun. And it has to be colder when the Earth is farther away, than when it is closer. |
|
|
|
Post by kls on Jan 28, 2018 2:25:18 GMT
So, first of all, there's not actually a "wobble", at least not on the time scale of one year that we are discussing in regard to the seasons (I think there is a wobble that happens on a tens-of-thousands-of-years time scale that makes the seasons more or less extreme over different epochs). The distinction between tilt and wobble in this scenario being that Earth's orientation with respect to the universe doesn't change over human time scales - the axis of rotation stays pointed almost directly at Polaris (the North Star) without respect to what season it is. It is just that as Earth moves in its orbit around the sun each hemisphere faces more toward or away from the sun. (Much easier to visualize with a picture.) It is the tilt. Earth's tilted axis of rotation (compared to the plane of its orbit) causes the South Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in December and the North Pole to be pointed more toward the sun in June. That gives those hemispheres more direct sunlight during the day and more hours of daylight, so there is more accumulated heat energy in the air, the water, and the ground on the hemisphere that is getting more direct sunlight in its summer season. The term "closer to the sun" is somewhat vague and confusing, here, because you could actually describe the North Pole as being "closer to the sun" than the South Pole in June, because of being tilted that direction, but the distance is not relevant, and in fact because the Earth's orbit is not perfectly circular, I think the distance to the sun is actually less during our winter in the Northern Hemisphere (I think). That is all very interesting. But it takes the Earth a year to circle the Sun. And it has to be colder when the Earth is farther away, than when it is closer. The sun is about 91 million miles away in January and about 94 million miles away in July. How do you account for the fact the Northern Hemisphere is having winter and the Southern Hemisphere is having summer? Why doesn't the planet have the same season at the same time then? It's the tilt and the angle of the sun's rays. |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2018 2:36:00 GMT
Earth is closest to the sun every year in early January, when it's winter for the Northern Hemisphere. We're farthest away from the sun in early July, during our Northern Hemisphere summer.
And the Southern Hemisphere is warmer than the Northern.
The distance from the Sun must have an effect.
|
|
|
|
Post by kls on Jan 28, 2018 2:38:14 GMT
Earth is closest to the sun every year in early January, when it's winter for the Northern Hemisphere. We're farthest away from the sun in early July, during our Northern Hemisphere summer. And the Southern Hemisphere is warmer than the Northern. The distance from the Sun must have an effect. So why aren't we having the same season right now in both hemispheres if the distance from the sun has an effect? |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2018 2:39:15 GMT
Closer to the sun or further from the sun in the orbit path applies to the entire planet. The closest distance is about 91 million miles (January) and the furthest is about 94 million miles (July) If that was what created the seasons the northern and southern hemispheres would have the same seasons, not opposites. It's the tilt and angle of the sun's rays. The Earth is closest to the sun every year in early January, when it's winter for the Northern Hemisphere. We're farthest away from the sun in early July, during our Northern Hemisphere summer. And the Southern Hemisphere is warmer than the Northern. The distance from the Sun must have an effect. |
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2018 2:40:56 GMT
Earth is closest to the sun every year in early January, when it's winter for the Northern Hemisphere. We're farthest away from the sun in early July, during our Northern Hemisphere summer. And the Southern Hemisphere is warmer than the Northern. The distance from the Sun must have an effect. So why aren't we having the same season right now in both hemispheres if the distance from the sun has an effect? Because it is both. The angle of the Sun is important too. |
|
|
|
Post by kls on Jan 28, 2018 2:49:19 GMT
So why aren't we having the same season right now in both hemispheres if the distance from the sun has an effect? Because it is both. The angle of the Sun is important too. I really don't mean to be rude, but you asked for clarification and refuse to accept it. When the distance thing theory is completely off for half the planet I can't see how it's logical to cling to it. |
|
