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Post by SciFive on Mar 12, 2024 21:48:33 GMT
The Holocaust Survivors’ Foundation USA has attacked The Zone of Interest director Jonathan Glazer for what it describes as his “morally indefensible” Oscar acceptance speech on Sunday. In an open letter published on the organisation’s website, the foundation’s chairman David Schaecter, wrote: “You made a Holocaust movie and won an Oscar. And you are Jewish. Good for you. But it is disgraceful for you to presume to speak for the six million Jews, including one and a half million children, who were murdered solely because of their Jewish identity.” Schaecter added: “You should be ashamed of yourself for using Auschwitz to criticise Israel. If the creation, existence, and survival of the State of Israel as a Jewish state equates to ‘occupation’ in your mind, then you obviously learned nothing from your movie.” Glazer, along with film producer James Wilson, won the best international film Academy Award for The Zone of Interest, about the daily life of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss and his wife Hedwig. In his speech, Glazer said that he and Wilson “stand here as men who refute their Jewishness and the Holocaust being hijacked by an occupation which has led to conflict for so many innocent people, whether the victims of October 7 in Israel or the ongoing attack in Gaza.” On Monday the Anti-Defamation League posted a message on social media attacking Glazer’s comments as “reprehensible”, saying: “Israel is not hijacking Judaism or the Holocaust by defending itself against genocidal terrorists. Glazer’s comments at the #Oscars are both factually incorrect & morally reprehensible. They minimise the Shoah & excuse terrorism of the most heinous kind.” www.theguardian.com/film/2024/mar/12/us-holocaust-survivors-foundation-calls-jonathan-glazer-oscars-speech-morally-indefensible-the-zone-of-interest |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 1:50:07 GMT
It is not genocide but it is the first step in an ethnic cleansing campaign…. when this ends, settlers will flood into the region and grab up the prime real estate (they might even be doing it now or at least filing paperwork)…the innocent Palestinians not in Hamas will be forced into even more crowded ghettos with horrific living conditions. Israel will occupy the region indefinitely and those Palestinians will be living as second class citizens in the region….the region of Gaza will be an apartheid state. that is the only realistic scenario I see on how this turns out. of course, we have seen what happens when a non Muslim force tries to occupy a region with Muslim majority. It’s not pretty. And it will force Israel to use even more brutal means to maintain order. Israel is fighting a war attrition against the Hamas faction, which I do support, but the “collateral damage” they have produced in that war is unacceptable. I’m not saying Israel shouldn’t defend itself or wage war on the people responsible for the state-sponsored terrorist attack, however I’m criticizing how Israel is carrying out their war which is extremely lopsided without regard to innocent people too poor and uneducated to be held responsible for things beyond their control. If any here claims all Palestinian Muslims are Hamas or pro-Hamas, then explain your mind-reading techniques. We don’t kill people for what they might be thinking or because they are stuck believing in a hate production religion they didn’t invent nor have a choice in becoming. I also criticize the Israeli government’s handling of what has become a fiasco and disgrace to the Religion of Judaism. And Israeli high command may have a more sinister motive for not listening to reason from the USA and her other allies in conducting the war. This thread is supposed to be about a movie whose theme is the banality of evil. If there were enough people like you during WWII, complaining that Allied collateral damage and the deaths of German and Japanese civilians, the war would have lasted much longer, and we might even have lost. If any here claims all Palestinian Muslims are Hamas or pro-Hamas, then explain your mind-reading techniques. We don’t kill people for what they might be thinking or because they are stuck believing in a hate production religion they didn’t invent nor have a choice in becoming.
The Israelis are not trying to deliberately kill Palestinian civilians because of what those civilians are "thinking". If Israel could destroy Hamas without killing any civilians, it would. But that is simply not possible in a densely populated place like Gaza. I also criticize the Israeli government’s handling of what has become a fiasco and disgrace to the Religion of Judaism.
The vast majority of Israeli Jews are in favor of this war, and I think they are a little more qualified than you do decide whether something is "a disgrace to Judaism". And Israeli high command may have a more sinister motive for not listening to reason from the USA and her other allies in conducting the war.
There is nothing "sinister", and you don't have to be a genius to realize that the US is giving Israel bad advice. An extended ceasefire will give Hamas the opportunity to rebuild its strength and to launch more October 7 massacres, as it has openly promised. Why would Israelis want to allow that? |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 1:57:12 GMT
No, it would be the right thing to do. Imagine if the allies had not crushed and destroyed Germany and Japan in WW2 you bloody fool and hypocrite. Hamas and their supporters in Palestine need to be destroyed at all costs. This is hardly WWII and the Axis powers. Hamas needs to identified and destroyed. Again, we don’t do the barbaric “kill them all and let God take his own” bullshit anymore. Gaza is not Nazi Germany and the Jewish people worldwide, and the memory of Holocaust victims, do not deserve what is being done in their name.
The difference between Hamas and the WWII Axis is only one of size, not of content. Ideologically, Hamas is similar to the Nazis and to the Japanese militarists. And October 7 was similar to Kristallnacht, the Einsatzgruppen, and the Rape of Nanjing. Hamas must be destroyed, before it can act on its promise to launch more October 7 massacres. Gaza is not Nazi Germany and the Jewish people worldwide, and the memory of Holocaust victims, do not deserve what is being done in their name. The whole point of Israel is that Jews should have a haven where they will be safe, and that they can have the ability to fight back against their enemies. It is this that means the victims of the Holocaust did not die in vain. Hamas has shown, both ideologically and in its actions, that it is out to murder as many Jews as possible (except for the ones taken hostage, of course). Israel should be allowed to fight back and destroy Hamas. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 1:58:34 GMT
You are a fucking hypocrite PaulsLaugh. W hy is it okay for Putin to bomb Ukraine? There is a third way, sometimes fourth and fifth ways, to think about things, just as there are many options of taking care of Hamas other continuing to kill humans caught in the middle of two extreme one-dimensional forces. You are condemning me for being pro-Hamas when I clearly stated I am not. Why can’t you accept I don’t share your opinion and that does mean I’m siding with the bad guys. You do not want Israel to do what is necessary to destroy Hamas. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:00:37 GMT
Bullshit PaulsLaugh, I know you are not pro-Hamas, I am condemning you for your hypocrisy and your inability to see the big picture. The big picture is that even the Director of Zone of Interest sees the genocide of Gaza as the similar to the genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany. Every intelligent person that knows history can see the similarities. Except there is NO Genocide going on in Gaza. Something like 2% of the population of Gaza has been killed, and many of those killed were Hamas fighters and terrorists. That is not Genocide. |
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Post by Boricanator on Mar 13, 2024 2:01:32 GMT
The big picture is that even the Director of Zone of Interest sees the genocide of Gaza as the similar to the genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany. Every intelligent person that knows history can see the similarities. Except there is NO Genocide going on in Gaza. Something like 2% of the population of Gaza has been killed, and many of those killed were Hamas fighters and terrorists. That is not Genocide. There is genocide. Todays’s Israel is the modern Nazi Germany. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:02:33 GMT
The big picture is that even the Director of Zone of Interest sees the genocide of Gaza as the similar to the genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany. Every intelligent person that knows history can see the similarities. There are no similarities between a campaign of extermination planned and executed deliberately on an industrial scale and a few thousand people dying as collateral damage as a result of their "government" refusing to surrender unconditionally. Every honest person that is not blinded by ideology can see that.
This. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:04:30 GMT
Except there is NO Genocide going on in Gaza. Something like 2% of the population of Gaza has been killed, and many of those killed were Hamas fighters and terrorists. That is not Genocide. There is genocide. Todays’s Israel is the modern Nazi Germany. Rubbish. 2%, much of which consists of inadvertent civilian casualties, is not Genocide. And if there were enough leftists like you during WWII, calling Allied bombing "Genocide", we might have lost the war. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:06:46 GMT
Sorry, what is it, that I am unable to see is 'wrong' ? Any criticism of Israel as a secular nation is forbidden. Rubbish. You are free to criticize Israel. But I am free to point out that your criticisms are ridiculous. Hamas has openly promised to launch more October 7 massacres. It must be destroyed. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:09:29 GMT
You're unable to see that Israel is up against barbarians (Hamas, Fatah, etc) whose organizational goals are to kill Jews and acquire Israel.
Israel defends against them because it's a necessity.
The serial killer barbarians who kill and mutilate random Jews are the black-and-white bad guys who have no justification for their actions.
You're unable to see that Israel is up against barbarians (Hamas, Fatah, etc) whose organizational goals are to kill Jews and acquire Israel. Nope. I can see that and agree any senseless killing is wrong.
Israel defends against them because it's a necessity. Yep, I can see Israel is required to defend against Hamas.The serial killer barbarians who kill and mutilate random Jews are the black-and-white bad guys who have no justification for their actions. Yep, any killing of innocent people is abhorrent.
So it is you who needs to do a little reassessing here and understand that people who are horrified by 30,000 innocent people being murdered are not automatically ambivalent to any innocent people being slaughtered by Hamas or any other group of terrorists.
First, those figures are from Hamas, and are therefore probably inflated. Second, many of those killed were Hamas fighters and terrorists, therefore NOT innocent. And third, civilians get killed in war; that is what makes war a thing to be avoided if possible. But Hamas launched this war, and it has promised more October 7 massacres. It must be destroyed., |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:14:21 GMT
There are no similarities between a campaign of extermination planned and executed deliberately on an industrial scale and a few thousand people dying as collateral damage as a result of their "government" refusing to surrender unconditionally. Every honest person that is not blinded by ideology can see that.
The persecution and destruction has been going on for decades. And in this conflict, it is 30,000. I don’t consider that a few thousand. Make no mistake. This isn’t collateral. This is on purpose. They are just better at hiding it than the Nazis. This is genocide. This is real. Israel will be judged poorly in history for this.
Those figures are from Hamas, and are therefore likely to be over-inflated. Make no mistake. This isn’t collateral. This is on purpose.
Rubbish. Israelis know full well that every Palestinian casualty is another propaganda point for Israel's enemies and Israel's critics. Deliberately killing civilians is the last thing the Israelis want to do. But in a densely populated place like Gaza, it is unavoidable. This is genocide.
The only Genocide there is what Hamas wants to do to the Jews. Israel will be judged poorly in history for this.If Israel is able to destroy Hamas, it will be worth any "poor judgment". |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:17:38 GMT
The primary characteristic of the Holocaust is that it was a deliberate attempt to exterminate all Jews from all occupied countries. The Nazi government had meetings where that was decided at the highest levels, and then elaborate plans were made to execute it. Do you think Netanyahu's cabinet made the decision "Fuck it, at this point let's just kill everybody in Gaza"? If not, the comparison stops there.
I don't buy for a moment Israeli propaganda about the IDF making every possible effort to avoid casualties, but to say that Israel wants to kill every single Palestinian is patently absurd. If that were the case, why is the death toll only 30,000?
No one rational person is comparing the Holocaust to Gaza, however to wholesale slaughter of people who cannot defend themselves in this case is genocide. That said, the USA is guilty of genocide during many times in its history. The conundrum here is why would a nation of civilized, highly educated people now in their own country specifically due the horrors of the Holocaust, would perpetuate a crime against humanity even it is in an acute form. You are begging the question. Fighting against Hamas and killing 2% of the population of Gaza in the process is not a "crime against humanity". |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:19:18 GMT
The primary characteristic of the Holocaust is that it was a deliberate attempt to exterminate all Jews from all occupied countries. The Nazi government had meetings where that was decided at the highest levels, and then elaborate plans were made to execute it. Do you think Netanyahu's cabinet made the decision "Fuck it, at this point let's just kill everybody in Gaza"? If not, the comparison stops there.
I don't buy for a moment Israeli propaganda about the IDF making every possible effort to avoid casualties, but to say that Israel wants to kill every single Palestinian is patently absurd. If that were the case, why is the death toll only 30,000?
The current definition of genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. For the record, I'm not saying that Israel is doing genocide in Gaza but Israel doesn't have to attempt to kill all 2 million Palestinians for the action to be considered genocide. The massacre at Srebenica during the Bosnian war was considered an act of genocide despite killing 8,000 men which wasn't the entire Bosniak population and being a significantly inferior number than the people killed in Gaza so far. By your reasoning, Allied bombing in WWII, which killed hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese civilians, was "Genocide". I see that as rubbish. |
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Post by marsatax on Mar 13, 2024 2:23:49 GMT
Qatar was sending money to the civilians ($100 per person, or something like that) and Israel allowed it. Also, Gazan civilians were applying for work permits in Israel. A number of Gazans were allowed to work in Israel - something like 16,000. Israel has been allowing serious medical cases to come through from Gaza as well. Israel is a nice country. So Israel let 0.8% of Gazans work in Israel, probably to clean their toilets or some other shit jobs that Israelis won’t do. Does Israel want a medal for their magnanimity? You don't have to worry. The Gazans who worked in Israel gave lots of information to Hamas about target locations, number of people, etc., so they got their revenge and then some. Does that make you happy? |
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 13, 2024 8:45:22 GMT
The current definition of genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. For the record, I'm not saying that Israel is doing genocide in Gaza but Israel doesn't have to attempt to kill all 2 million Palestinians for the action to be considered genocide. The massacre at Srebenica during the Bosnian war was considered an act of genocide despite killing 8,000 men which wasn't the entire Bosniak population and being a significantly inferior number than the people killed in Gaza so far. By your reasoning, Allied bombing in WWII, which killed hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese civilians, was "Genocide". I see that as rubbish. No. That wasn't my reasoning. |
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