|
Post by mowlick on Aug 9, 2023 19:00:53 GMT
Nobby and Carl are desperate for more immigrants, so why not solve the problem by sending them to Scotland and Germany where they will be welcomed ?
|
|
|
Post by notoriousnobbi on Aug 9, 2023 19:07:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Aug 9, 2023 19:10:58 GMT
We have an election soon. Don't worry about us. We don't need you lot. We never have.
|
|
|
Post by tickingmask on Aug 9, 2023 19:11:53 GMT
This discussion has been going on for a while. Here's a question for those who consider the possibility unthinkable: if the Tories campaign to leave the ECHR and get voted in on that basis, is this not the democratic will of the people? Or does that count for nothing unless it agrees with what you want?
And this "UK doesn't respect human rights" argument is utter malicious crap. There are plenty of civilised countries out there which have somehow managed to maintain a pretty decent human rights record without needing to join the EHCR. Why would any sane person argue that it is impossible to do one without the other?
BTW if anybody wants to know where the ECHR exceeded its remit, the 'votes for prisoners' law is a good example. It should be up to the UK courts to decide whether UK prisoners should get to vote or not - when did it become the right of the ECHR to determine domestic issues such as this? - yet the ECtHR nevertheless chose to pursue the UK for not allowing this.
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Aug 9, 2023 19:13:11 GMT
Staggering, isn't it. A drive to the bottom. Link it with asylum seekers and appeal to the xenophobia in people as the only way to get elected. This appalling Government just gets more appalling by the day. Still, we "don't need human rights" apparently.
Not that I feel strongly about it one way or the other, but come on, be honest here. There is an enormous difference between "we don't need human rights" and "we don't need a foreign entity to tell us what human rights are, our courts are perfectly able to determine that on their own, thank you very much".
Its always the same shite. The entire point of Brexit was to be self governed. I see no reason why a European court should supersede our courts and government, nor see why we should be restricted by the European Convention.
|
|
|
Post by Carl LaFong on Aug 9, 2023 19:15:55 GMT
I suspect that's what's it's really about. Scroll through the charta (it's not that big) and pick the articles You think it might be about, I don't have a clue which rights UK citizens do have without the ECHR. Or even better: if You know a lawyer in private, go to a pub with him and ask him there. I would say charter rather than charta. And I make it a rule never to associate with lawyers unless I really have no other choice! 😉
|
|
|
Post by Carl LaFong on Aug 9, 2023 19:16:52 GMT
Nobby and Carl are desperate for more immigrants, so why not solve the problem by sending them to Scotland and Germany where they will be welcomed ? I’m certainly not desperate for more immigrants. We have far too many already!
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Aug 9, 2023 19:18:44 GMT
I suspect that's what's it's really about. Scroll through the charta (it's not that big) and pick the articles You think it might be about, I don't have a clue which rights UK citizens do have without the ECHR. Or even better: if You know a lawyer in private, go to a pub with him and ask him there. Are you on drugs?
|
|
|
Post by Carl LaFong on Aug 9, 2023 19:19:40 GMT
Not that I feel strongly about it one way or the other, but come on, be honest here. There is an enormous difference between "we don't need human rights" and "we don't need a foreign entity to tell us what human rights are, our courts are perfectly able to determine that on their own, thank you very much".
Its always the same shite. The entire point of Brexit was to be self governed. I see no reason why a European court should supersede our courts and government, nor see why we should be restricted by the European Convention. Normally I’d agree with you, but this mob in charge just now are amoral vermin and any extra curb on some of the things they would otherwise try to foist on us is to be welcomed. Although I do agree the ECHR is far too pro-immigrant.
|
|
|
Post by notoriousnobbi on Aug 9, 2023 19:35:18 GMT
This discussion has been going on for a while. Here's a question for those who consider the possibility unthinkable: if the Tories campaign to leave the ECHR and get voted in on that basis, is this not the democratic will of the people? ... If have no problem with it - if this time an independent non-partisan commission is coming up with a list of advantages and disadvantages of this newly to make decision. And if this time the money flows founding the campaigns for or against get a closer look. And if this time the heap of disinformation is lower. An information everyone should know before voting for or against the membership in ECHR Good Friday Agreementeachother.org.uk/good-friday-agreement-echr/If hard Brexiteers want to continue there are still a big number of international bodies You are part of and so also many other international courts to get rid off International Criminal Courten.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_CourtAppellate Body of the World Trade Organizationen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellate_Body... Whether that's a good idea is a completely different question.
|
|
|
Post by tickingmask on Aug 9, 2023 19:55:04 GMT
Ignoring your pathetically emotive terms like ' hard Brexiteers' - this would only be done with the will of the majority, this is called ' democracy' and 'Brexiteer' is a dead term since we have now left the EU - we only want to get rid of ( 'get rid of'??? do you mean 'leave'?) international bodies who have vastly exceeded the remit under which they were initially created, like the ECHR, for instance. So drop the silly strawmen, please.
|
|
|
Post by tickingmask on Aug 9, 2023 21:39:26 GMT
Normally I’d agree with you, but this mob in charge just now are amoral vermin and any extra curb on some of the things they would otherwise try to foist on us is to be welcomed. Although I do agree the ECHR is far too pro-immigrant. If there are to be extra curbs, I would prefer the organisation applying these curbs to be accountable to the British electorate and not some unaccountable external body who has decided to take on more powers for itself without any ability for us to challenge this. British courts should take precedent.
|
|
|
Post by notoriousnobbi on Aug 10, 2023 0:49:25 GMT
Ignoring your pathetically emotive terms like ' hard Brexiteers' - this would only be done with the will of the majority, this is called ' democracy' and 'Brexiteer' is a dead term since we have now left the EU ... There are two positions: 1) Brexit is done, the terminology of Brexiteers and Remainers doesn't make sense any longer. ("Rejoining" also makes no sense as in the rare case of the UK getting membership again the EU would be a different body anyways) 2) There are people working on the aftermath of Brexit. 2a) Some decide to ditch the UKCA for the old CE (working towards an alignement where it makes sense) 2b) Some decide to work on REUL (without asking many stakeholders) working for greater divergence Now how should I call people behind 2a) and how should I call people behind 2b) ? any proposals for terminology?
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Aug 10, 2023 4:24:17 GMT
Its always the same shite. The entire point of Brexit was to be self governed. I see no reason why a European court should supersede our courts and government, nor see why we should be restricted by the European Convention. Normally I’d agree with you, but this mob in charge just now are amoral vermin and any extra curb on some of the things they would otherwise try to foist on us is to be welcomed. Although I do agree the ECHR is far too pro-immigrant. Thats why we have elections. There is nothing the tories can do that labour couldn't undo.
|
|
|
Post by Flying Monkeys on Aug 10, 2023 5:34:43 GMT
We should. Why do we need it? What a shock, the conservative is against human rights. Oh yawn. When there's an army of lawyers using a pathetically weak system by briefing their clients with lies and the ECHR sides with them and we get the burden on our society, that's not "human rights" at work, that's just plain abuse. It's time for this bullshit to be kicked out and sensible laws to be put in place.
|
|